Written over a period of time, from 11/08/01 to 11/13/01
MSN.COM
Civica Office Bldg
205 108th Ave N.E.
Suite 400
Bellvue, WA 98004
Attn: MSN Complaint Department
Subject: Incredible lack of service from MSN
Dear MSN.COM:
This note cannot possibly express my extreme frustration, disappointment and incredibly low esteem in which I now hold your organization. Just getting the name of the division president, so that I might send this letter to a named person has proved impossible, a further indication of the lack of respect you show for customers. The body of this note is documentation regarding my experience with MSN.COM so far, as an account that is attempting to transfer from QWEST.NET where I was a very satisfied customer for over two years.
I have now been on hold, or speaking to your representatives, trying to obtain service, for close to 16 hours since Sunday November 4, 2001. While this note attempts to explain my situation, I am certain your various databases have more information than I do. I didn’t know I’d have to document everything quite so carefully when I started on 11/04.
My email ID is michael_frishberg@msn.com, my billing telephone number is 503-788-6424 293. My MSN.COM trouble tickets include 47815971, 48318325, 48570270. My QWEST trouble tickets include 7930820 and others as documented below.
Here is a partial list of events so far:
1. Several weeks ago, Qwest.Net informed me that my account would be transferred to MSN.com and I could either do nothing or proactively switchover myself. Either way, in time, my qwest.net id would no longer be valid. I was very unhappy with this prospect, as my association with QWEST.NET had been entirely satisfactory so far.
2. I went online and switched. I could make several comments about this process, but that would be another entire letter, and off the current topic. (I wrote this note over a several day period, see comments at end of this note concerning my switchover, and why it caused me trouble as I tried to solve the problems I faced (item 31i for example).
3. I received a CD in the mail. No one ever explained to me why I need a CD to simply use an ISP on the web. (This too is finally explained below, yet although I have asked more than 10 service personnel why I needed this software, no one could answer the question).
4. I decided to change over to MSN during Sunday afternoon 11/04/01. I installed the CD and read the instructions. It appeared straightforward, so I proceeded to attempt to perform the installation operation. A short time into the installation, I was facing a problem. It appeared that my then current QWEST.NET Cisco 675 Router would not operate with the MSN service since the CBOS was at the wrong level. I had CBOS V2.1 and I required CBOS V2.4.3.
5. I called MSN with a simple question. Since my router and my computer are not in close proximity (my computer is upstairs, the router is in the basement), I simply was trying to find out if I had to have them in close proximity to perform the upgrade operation. MSN Tech support was unable to answer the question, but since I was upgrading from QWEST.NET they gave me a support number at QWEST. QWEST was also unable or unwilling to assist since I was a MSN customer so they sent me back to MSN. The new folks at MSN told me they could not help either, so they sent me to another group at QWEST, those who help folks who are using ISPs other than QWEST. This set of ping-pong calls lasted almost an hour.
6. I finally reached a techie who tried to help. He told me up front that he was not supposed to do so, as he generally helped people at ISPs other than QWEST. I suggested that MSN.COM is an ISP that is not QWEST.NET and he agreed. He asked what was wrong, he followed along with his own disk, we read the Read Me file on the MSN CD together, and he had me download the correct CBOS V2.4.3 firmware. Then I moved my modem out of the basement, and connected the management cable to the router from my machine. We attempted to upgrade, at which time he informed me I would need to download CBOS V2.2 instead, since I could not upgrade V2.4.3 until V2.2 was installed. I took my router back to the basement, reconnected the phone line and Ethernet, downloaded the V2.2 firmware, unplugged the router, went back upstairs and we tried to install it. Understand that each of these iterations took about 10 minutes. We finished trying to load the firmware when an operation fault message appeared on the Hyperlink terminal. Although we tried to recover the router, the technician indicated that it would no longer be operational, ever. (Tried FLASH too, without recovering the router.)
7. At this point, I had spent over three hours on the phone with the result that I no longer had an operational router, nor any means to sign onto the net. I originally purchased this particular computer specifically to use QWEST DSL services, so I never purchased an internal or external modem. The technician reassured me that QWEST would send out a new router by Wednesday 11/07, and although he could not order it directly for me, he gave me a number to call on Monday morning to obtain the modem. Seemed fair to me, and not unreasonable.
8. I called Qwest on Monday morning to discover that they would not send me another router. Since mine was out of warrantee on the existing Cisco 675, and even though it was through no fault of my own that it “got fried” (a technical term I suppose, and not that unusual according to another tech I spoke with later in the week), during the upgrade with their technician, they would not send me a modem to replace it. However, since I was now a MSN customer, I was informed that MSN should help me. I was on the phone or on hold for over an hour with QWEST that morning. I also protested this arrangement, since I was still a QWEST customer when the problem occurred, and I felt I should be getting a new router ASAP from QWEST, as their instructions and “help” determined the demise of my router.
9. Thereupon, I called MSN tech support on Monday, and reached a very sympathetic person. She first asked me “Didn’t they send you a modem with your CD?” The answer was no, of course, the assumption being that all I was doing was changing my existing DSL service, and therefore already had a modem (now fried). So she said she would put a modem on order, and escalate it to arrive on Wednesday or Thursday this week. (This is not the only call I made to MSN that morning, there were several other uncooperative (actually bordering on nasty) people that I spoke with as well). These interactions with MSN lasted about 2 hours. We also had a discussion at that time about CAP DSL vs. DMT DSL, and she went off to a supervisor, and came back on the phone to let me know that this would all be part of the order, not to worry, all would be well by Wednesday or Thursday when the modem arrived at my house. She really was sweet and sympathetic, and I am certain she was sincere, but read on to discover that, in the end, her reassurances were actually extremely empty promises.
10. Wednesday came and no modem arrived. Thursday morning I had a question, so I called MSN tech support to see if they could answer it. I spent about 10 minutes on hold, and then got a human operator on the other end of the line. She asked me at least 10 questions, and assumed I was looking for my modem, before I was even able to tell her why I had called. She could not understand my question, so I asked it a different way. She still did not understand so I took another stab at it. The answer appears that, yes, I will need to have the modem in close proximity to my PC to install something on it via the management cable before I can install it on the Internet. Then she checked into my order. She could find NO MODEM ON ORDER even after all my activity on Monday, and reassurance that things were coming my way. This was after she had already asked me if I was inquiring about my modem. She obviously had seen something that had indicated that I should be expecting a modem, but now was not finding it in the database of on-order modems! She let me know that a modem would arrive in 5 to 10 business days. I believe she put it on order; I still am unclear about this. I asked for her supervisor. After a FURTHER TWENTY MINUTES ON HOLD, Tracy got on the phone to let me know, first that it took her that long to get into some database or other that she didn’t use everyday, and that she had placed me in Escalation Mode, and that I would definitely get a call from the Urgent Customer Care folks within eight hours. I was on hold or speaking to the tech and/or Tracy for 1 hour.
11. So, around 6:45 that evening I wondered why I had yet to receive a phone call. I had waited at home all day, specifically for resolving my lack of Internet access, yet received no call from MSN. I was not even sure why I needed to hear from anyone at Urgent Customer Care, the escalation folks, or anyone else from MSN. They certainly had enough information about what the problem was. I just wanted my router so I can connect to the net. I spoke with a tech, after 10 minutes on hold. He appreciated my situation, and put me on hold while he investigated. He got back on line with me to assure me that, yes, my record indicated I was in escalation mode, and actually had been since Monday, and that since 72 hours had elapsed it was okay that I was in escalation mode. He also pointed out it had not been eight hours yet, since I had spoken to Tracy that morning, only seven. He also suggested that I might not get a call today. Finally, he conceded I might still get a call that night.
12. Right this minute it has been eight and a half hours since I was assured I would be called. It has been four days since I was assured I would have a modem by now. It has been about two weeks since I tried to get a new Internet ID from MSN. I do not have any service yet.
All of the above I offer as evidence for my conclusions so far. Your organization does not understand what service means. It has not a shred of credibility. It cannot make commitments or keep promises. It has inadequate numbers of lines open, and supervisors available. It keeps customers on hold instead of calling them back when you are ready to do something or waiting until you actually know something. You cannot even give me the name of anyone in your organization that will read this letter, or be responsible for resolution.
I feel abused, confused and refused. Where is my modem?
I have already informed my hundreds of correspondents that MSN is my new provider, but I cannot get to my email. I am waiting to hear from several potential employers, but cannot see my email to determine if they have responded to last week’s applications. You are costing me money on a daily basis, and have done NOTHING to help me as far as I can tell. In addition, no one in your organization, in spite of his or her protestations, seems to care a shred about my dilemma, or take responsibility and follow through for me.
I finished the above at 8PM on 11/08/01, and will continue this note when more information arrives.
8am 11/09
13. Called MSN to determine what’s what. Got Chad on the line who asked me questions and then YELLED AT ME when I couldn’t answer some of his queries. When I did attempt to answer his questions, he cut me off in mid-sentence by placing me on hold to allow me to listen to muzak. He got back on line to let me know there were no supervisors available. He did not know if I had a modem on order or not, he indicated the trouble ticket said it had be “re-escalated” whatever that meant. He let me know a supervisor would definitely call me later today, but did not know when that might happen.
14. I called QWEST.NET to ask about DMT vs. CAP DSL service. Jolene answered to tell me that MSN.NET now has complete control of my account, and QWEST cannot even see what service I am getting at the house. (This was not explained in any of the documentation I had received from MSN.COM or from QWEST.NET. I was under the assumption that my physical connection was still owned by QWEST.NET and my ISP connection was owned by MSN.COM.) Therefore, she called MSN.COM with me on the phone. Jim answered, and Jolene started QWEST.NET ticket number 6860107. Jolene had briefed Jim about my DMT vs. CAP question. He put me on hold then came back and asked me my name and phone number again, along with my zip code. I gave him the trouble ticket number. He put me on hold again. Eventually Jim reassured me that Tracy (the supervisor from the prior day) had been involved, the Urgent Care folk knew of my situation, they were re-provisioning the lines since the order had been all messed up, a new modem would be on the way, and they would definitely positively in no uncertain terms call me with delivery information later on Friday. I suggested that even if they put it overnight Airborne it would not get here on Saturday, since Airborne does not deliver on Saturdays. Since Monday is going to be Veterans Day, it probably wouldn’t be arriving then either. Jim suggested that when they called they would leave the air bill number even on my answering machine and I could go to the Airborne office directly and pick it up. I suggested that I had heard all of this before, that no one had ever called me back regardless of the promises made, and that I would wager real money that no one would call me back this time either
15. No one called me. Not the promised call back from a supervisor, nor the escalation folk who supposedly were sending me a router. It is now 3am 11/10.
16. At 942AM on 11/10 I tried calling technical support again. After 10 minutes on hold, Nancy answered the phone and asked me for my email ID. She immediately asked me if anyone had called me. I answered, No they hadn’t. She felt that was surprising. I suggested that she call me back once she knew something, but she asked me to please please please stay on hold. So, I did. After 1 minute on hold she asked me for my ticket number, something I had suggested I give her earlier, and something I assumed she already had in front of her, since she seemed to know I hadn’t had a call back yet.. I gave her the ticket number. She placed me on hold, for 10 more minutes and returned to say I had been escalated again, and should expect a call back within 8 hours. I let her know that I had heard that at least twice before this week. She agreed that it was “a little weird” that I had not had a call back before this. I asked her what I should do now. She said wait the 8 hours and call them back. I asked what good that would do? I then let her know I was writing this letter and would be copying my lawyer and the Better Business Bureau. I figured that would at least get me to a supervisor. However, instead, Nancy said that if I was talking about lawsuits she could not talk to me anymore. I said I was not talking about a lawsuit, and she hung up on me.
17. So, I called back, and after 10 minutes on hold, I reached Harry. Harry did not have a problem with the magic word, “lawsuit”, which had never escaped my lips, but was actually first suggested to me by Nancy. He also sympathized with my problem. However, he also gave me the interesting news that the escalation, urgent customer care department WAS NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS, so the claim Nancy made that I would hear from someone within eight hours, was moot. I asked whom else I could call, and he suggested I call customer service, at 1-877-327-6744 and select option 1.
18. I called the number Harry suggested and reached someone named Logan (I believe). Logan informed me that their tools were currently down and he could not do a thing. I asked him if there was another number I could try and he gave me 1-800-386-5550 option 7, MSN Customer Support. I asked him what that meant and he said that he worked in Customer Service but Customer Support was another organization.
19. So I called the suggested number, and a person named Logan answered. It could not have been 2 minutes since I had spoken to a fellow named Logan. Logan stated that their tools were down and that he probably could not help me at that moment (sounded eerily familiar and more than a little surreal). I asked him if I had not just spoken to him two minutes earlier. He did not actually deny having spoken to me, “I’ve taken many calls in that time period” but did offer to send an email to his Tier 2 support, so they might give me a call back. However, he also could not guarantee that they would call me, or when they would call me. He also suggested I call back in 20 minutes when the tools were back up. I asked if he would call me back when the tools were back up but he claimed they could not call out of the call center where he sat, that’s was why he had escalated me to Tier 2 via email.
20. One of these people did suggest I would probably be better off canceling my subscription and calling back as a new customer instead, since that would get me up faster. I am not going to do that. If I cancel my service, it will stay cancelled.
21. 11/12/01 5:30AM Called tech support and spoke to Drew who “re-escalated” my situation and suggested that someone would call within 8 hours.
22. 11/12/01 10:30AM Called 1-800-386-5550 option 7 and spoke with Alan who was able to see that I was escalated on Friday 11/09, but found NO BROADBAND ORDER for a modem. He asked if I had spoken to QWEST, as they handle the shipping of modems. I submitted that I had not talked with QWEST about this, since every time I speak with QWEST they tell me I should speak with MSN since MSN now deals with my situation. Alan put me on hold for 5 minutes. He returned to suggest I call the DSL support line within MSN.COM.
23. 11/12/01 10:45AM Called 1-800-826-3110 (MSN Interactive Support? Ostensibly DSL folk). I was on hold waiting for a human operator for 10 minutes. Jenny answered, listened to my situation to report that I had reached anther dept similar to Alan’s with no further knowledge of anything. Jenny suggested that the escalation department got a request on Friday. She further admitted that there was no guarantee that they actually would ever call back within 8 (eight) hours, although in my case they should have. Along with a significant hold time, Jenny and I were on the phone for half an hour. She suggested I call tech support (again), and speak to a supervisor and take it from there.
24. 11/12/01 11:15AM Called 1-877-327-6744 option 2. Darlene answered, asked for my identifying information, sympathized with me, suggested I hold while she got her supervisor, Don on the phone, I waited five minutes on hold, Darlene returned to say that Don was on the phone now with us both, and they promptly hung up on me.
25. 11/12/01 11:25AM I called back, since Don obviously wasn’t going to call me. Scott answered and, after he asked the perfunctory questions, put me on hold while he “got a hold of them”. The obligatory 5 minute wait proceeded. Don got on the phone to try to explain why my call dropped. I wasn’t that interested in why it dropped actually. Then we discussed the broadband order WHICH WAS NOT SHOWING AS HAVING BEEN PLACED. Don was going to give me another phone number to call. I asked to speak to his supervisor, he said there was no one above him to speak to about this. I suggested that I had been assured at least THREE times last week (Monday, Thursday and Friday) that the order had been placed to upgrade me to DMT from CAP, and that a modem was on the way. He did suggest that it being Veteran’s Day and all, perhaps they weren’t taking orders. He also stated his ticket showed that “You had been contacted (about 1:30pm) on Friday 11/09” concerning this order. I HAVE NOT BEEN CONTACTED BY ANYONE AT ANYTIME FROM MSN.COM. Not even a phone message on the recorder. I told Don, unequivocally that I should not have to make another phone call, that he should “handle” this, and that someone ought to be calling me back concerning my situation.
26. 11/12/01 11:45PM Called QWEST TECH SUPPORT. Nicki at QWEST answered and was as sympathetic as anyone could be. She dug into the situation and created a new QWEST ticket 6874977. Nicki suggested that it should not matter if I were CAP or DMT, the router should be capable of doing either. (That seems like truth to me, DMT is a CO function, not a CPE function, if you catch my drift.) So she put me on hold to try to reach someone “who knows something” in the MSN Broadband support org.
27. 11/12/01 12:15PM Nicki reached MSN Broadband support and hung on the line while I discussed the situation with Vicki. Between Nicki and Vicki (MSN Case number 48623009), they decided that QWEST really ought to ship me a CISCO 675 or 678 so that I could get onto MSN.COM right away, but that I also should shut down the MSN order if that was the resolution so that there would be no further delays, later, if the line gets re-provisioned. MSN.COM will work with CAP, it appears. Vicki also cleared up why I needed the CD from MSN in the first place (logon information is burned into it, that is used to program the modem, and an optional MSN browser is included too.) Nicki got Maria from QWEST DSL support on the phone. Ncki, Vicki, Maria and I had a spirited discussion; Maria put us all on hold. I don’t know where Nicki went. Vicki also put me on hold at one point and I was listening to two sets of muzak at once! Vicki came back on, asked me the ticket number of the non-QWEST ISP ticket, which included the blowing up of my original Cisco 675 Router (see paragraph numbers 5,6,7 above), which was 7930820. Then the other muzak stopped. Vicki and I asked if anyone was there, and she then confirmed that my line was dropped from Maria and Nicki, at about 1pm.
28. 11/12/01 1:20pm After mulling over my options I decided to try to get back to Maria. So I called her (probable) number only to find Jim. Jim said that Maria worked somewhere else, but that I should try another set of numbers 1-800218-4443 options 1,2,4. So I did.
29. 11/12/01 1:25PM I tried the suggested number, Kyla answered and said she didn’t know a Maria. I told her the story. She didn’t know any way to fix the current situation, but did let me know that if I completely cancel MSN.COM, then I could do business with a new option from QWEST.NET that they were now offering. It seems that many people were dissatisfied with MSN.COM and now QWEST is offering ISP support for consumers again. However, upon investigation, including another call to MSN.COM, I learned that simply quitting MSN.COM could take 8-10 business days, with another possible 10 days to reactivate my DSL service from QWEST. OF COURSE THIS IS WHAT I WANTED BEFORE ANY OF THIS STARTED, SIMPLY TO STAY WITH QWEST.NET. BUT NOW I’M BEING PENALIZED FOR FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY QWEST AND MSN. I WILL SUFFER SEVERAL MORE WEEKS OF DISRUPTION IF I SIMPLY WISH TO RETURN TO THE STATE I WAS IN PRIOR TO 11/03/01.
30. I GIVE UP! I went out and purchased a dial-up modem and twenty five feet of cabling, so I could at least get to my MSN.COM account and see my email for the last 10 days. This of course completely defeats the purpose of having DSL in the first place, since with dial-up I cannot be on the computer and phone at the same time.
31. For completeness, and to add to the unbelievable set of circumstances surrounding my odyssey so far, here’s what it took to get on the net via dial-up.
a. I installed my modem and cabling.
b. I called tech support to set up my autodial
c. MSN Tech support gave me a set of instructions, and I was ready to dial in
d. When I moved my CPU, I inadvertently hit the off switch on the computer
e. I called MSN back and reached another operator
f. During our discussion, I had to take another call. I asked the technician to wait a moment and clicked over to the other call. I spent no more than 20 seconds and came back to the MSN Techie, who had hung up on me. This seemed a little egregious since I had been on hold most of 15 hours with MSN, and she couldn’t stand a few seconds, but I am not vengeful or bitter, just numb.
g. I called MSN back and reached a third technician. He gave me instructions that differed from the initial discussion I had (item c above), which I found interesting.
h. I tried to logon, but it failed.
i. I called customer service (as opposed to technical support) to get a new password. I would have remembered my initial password, except the screen (when I initially began to convert from QWEST.NET to MSN.COM, several weeks earlier) that confirmed I had converted from QWEST.NET to MSN.COM didn’t print when I needed it to, and by the time I had found out that it hadn’t printed it had gone away. It had all kinds of pertinent information on it, and appeared to print, but it doesn’t. This was a known bug, I discovered during one of my technical discussions with one of the techies this week.
j. I actually was able to connect, and downloaded MSN Explorer. Still haven’t discovered how to change my password, I’ll have to call someone to discover where I do this, since the assigned password is impossible to remember.
So, as I now sit in front of my computer, there is no way to connect to the net via DSL, I cannot use my computer and phone simultaneously, I haven’t heard a word from MSN.COM in spite of at least 5 (FIVE) promised call backs during the last week. I have spent close to 16 hours on the phone, mostly on hold, and only got inaccurate answers, promises broken, and ultimately extreme dissatisfaction.
I call in to find that the operators can’t find my records; can’t tell me about my account; can’t locate even if they have ordered a modem for me or not; can’t tell me when it will arrive; are confused about the procedures I’ll have to go through when it does arrive; give me promises that aren’t fulfilled; give me promises that can’t possibly be fulfilled (the Urgent Escalation department isn’t even open on weekends, but I get promised a call back within 8 hours!); give me tech support that is incorrect; and generally leave me with more questions than when I started. I was without Internet service from Sunday November 4, 2001 through November 13, 2001 through absolutely no fault of my own. I was simply following directions.
I have been told that my Internet connection will be back up and running sometime in the next 10 to 20 business days. When the DSL is re-provisioned for DMT level of DSL they will ship second-day-Airborne a new router (Aristicom?) to me.
I now ask you what you think should happen. The performance of both QWEST and MSN so far have contributed to my current low expectation. I hope to be astonished at your response, and am ready and eager to be pleasantly surprised
Sincerely,
Michael W. Frishberg
1-503-788-6424
cc: Rob Lasko, Attorney at Law
Better Business Bureau of Portland, OR
joe@qwest.com President of Qwest
Microsoft HQ
