Wednesday, June 25, 2008

Referring to resetting Earth's Thermostat

"Hal Friedman" hfrie@nysif.com Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:34 pm (PDT) said:
You don't actually have a problem with Eskimo "technology", do you? Fur coats and igloos equivalent to greenhouse gases and nuclear waste?
 
From Hal who says give humans a break!
1.  Hal, you don't have a problem with reading for comprehension do you?  (Tried to sound just as Droll and Sarcastic as you did...sorry, I know you are smart, can't figure out why you've chosen the role of "defender of MANKIND" here though...and this note is trying to get to the bottom of that...It's a "Talmudic" discourse, as I'm certain you'll understand...I like you, don't be mad!)
 
2.  Igloos and Fur Coats are technologies that were quite Disruptive at that time and place...
 
You accusing me of some transgression for using Innuit as an example is immaterial and rather a feeble attempt to discredit my argument...which is a valid and time honored debating technique but doesn't move the conversation forward much... 
 
Pick ANY culture, (pre-industrial Revolution) and the answer is the same...their technology allowed them to invade the ecology they consumed...disrupted...destroyed...  the very definition of alien invader specie...
 
Did you know that the American Midwest was more forest than grassland, and those "noble savages" who lived "at one with nature" (not) burned it down so that they could create a Buffalo Hunting Ground?
 
Did you know that the Sahara Desert became much more so due to deforestation by people?  (Greek and then Roman shipbuilders cut every tree they found...)
 
I have no problem with ANY technology, only point out again that technology is what placed us here...unclear why or how it can dig anything but a bigger hole. 
 
My contention: any technology that could deal with the problem will be disruptive enough to have loads of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES...as we don't know enough about all the systems of the planet to manage them.  We're just recognizing that we'll have to "control" the climate chaos we're causing...and I find that daunting to say the least...
 
3.  Humans will be "given a break" shortly, and all I can do is remain childfree...
 
Hal, nice arm waving once again, glad you love our species (so do I...on another site yesterday someone claimed I WANT HUMANS TO GO EXTINCT, which couldn't be further from the truth...simply pointing out what I see as the inevitable...and pointing out my moral response...to reduce the numbers of people suffering at the end...)
 
Lately, we've "discussed"
universal veganism (you)
 
changing the way corporations are treated under the law (no longer PERSONS, so no first amendment rights for example, no giving to political causes, etc.)(me),
 
changing the way the cost of oil is accounted for (me),
 
and VHEMT (me).
 
Do you see ANY trends about which we ought be optimistic?
 
Do you think there is no problem altogether?
 
Phrased a little less confrontationally...(I do have a diplomatic side, believe it or not (otherwise I wouldn't KICK IT as a salesman!))...
 
What SHOULD humanity do to save the planet from ourselves and ourselves for the planet?
 
I eagerly await your thoughtful response...or another jab, I've thick skin and love a good debate...