Monday, May 26, 2008

Culture - It reveals the lie of the "War on Terror"

Lloyd wrote in response to my note earlier tonight.  I copy part of his note here, and respond more fully below:
 
Lloyd wrote:
...snip... 
However small, the Muslim secularists currently control key Arab states.  Money is certainly at work now, and is especially frustrating since we supply the capital from our purchase of oil and drugs.  The secular Arab states caused us little or no trouble when they were broke.
 
But now what should we do, or not do?"
...snip...
 
Terrorism" is just as big a problem for those governments as for us.
 
They want stability.
 
We must support their POLICE, and JUDICIARY. 
 
THE WINNING STRATEGY IS NOT DEMOCRACY PER SE, IT IS establishing the RULE OF LAW.
 
(The real winning strategy is getting off oil, but that's another discussion)
 
Terrorism - old definition, Pre-BUSHCO: 
"Criminal Acts Performed In Pursuit of Political Goals"
 
We need to respond to the criminal aspects...with legal and police methods (infiltration, neutralization, arrest, open trials, and sentences...with rather more than usual cooperation between supposed national enemies (Pakistan and India for example) it would be EASY to erase all the terrorists.  
 
That was not and is not the point of BUSHCO.
 
They wanted, and obtained, perpetual war, so they can perpetually suck at the teat of taxpayer largess...while clanging a pro-christian cultural crusades cymbol.
 
BUSHCO AND THE SAUDI EXTREMISTS WHO FINANCE OBAMA ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AND SERVING EACH OTHER, NOT NECESSARILY explicitly, SIMPLY BY THEIR ACTIONS...more terrorists now than in 2001, BUSHCO was best recruiting tool the extremists could wish for, and all we have to show for it is thousands of US dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani dead, and millions upon millions of displaced people, and 50% of the world's population has been born, watching us do it!!! 
 
Not too good for public relations, or being a moral example.
 
Culturally:  One cannot export, demand, instill, or otherwise "spread" democracy (except by being a better example than we have been lately).  SPREADING DEMOCRACY is oxymoronic on its face.  Democracy must be home grown, to be meaningful, and, it requires a population that can READ and understand what their civic duties are...Afghans aren't quite there yet, probably neither is Qatar, who knows?!?
 
However, a sense of JUSTICE is GENETICALLY EMBEDDED IN US.  (loads of research from monkeys to college students, we've got a moral compass that's built in (3 month old infants show it...) and that includes a sense of what is just and what is not just.
 
Establishing the RULE OF LAW is what wins.
1.  The natives appreciate that they can rely on the government and the laws.
PAKISTAN is the current poster child for renewal of their entire court system, since it was dismantled a couple of years ago...the people aren't pleased!
 
2.  Countries that establish the rule of law will much more easily attract CAPITAL, which is the only religion worth pursuing amongst those with it!
 
3.  With rule of law, things can progress, women can be liberated to have educations and control of their own bodies, democracy can bloom...if that's what the natives want...
 
I am afraid the Neo-Con's kool-aid has you swimming Lloyd.
 
There are reasons for war, and there are reasons for war.
 
Religion is used as a justification for actions, on both sides.
 
However, the Iraqi war is ONLY about OIL and obtaining the military investment necessary to defend our use of OIL, for ever (or 100 years, whatever comes first). 
 
FOLLOW THE MONEY:  HALIBURTON, LOCKHEED, EXXON, ETC.
 
Have you heard that "We are fighting them there, so we won't have to fight them here?"
 
Are we really defending our incredible acts in Iraq by that claim?
 
Could there be a more heinously IMMORAL act, fighting a war on a proxy state's ground?
 
FORGET ABOUT THE MERITS OF OUR INVASION AND OCCUPATION OF A NATION THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY NO THREAT TO THE U.S., SUCH AS IRAQ...
 
IN THIS DEMOCRACY, CAN YOU VOTE FOR FIGHTING A WAR ON FOREIGN GROUND EXPLICITLY TO PROTECT THE US?  
 
THAT'S HOW OUR CULTURE WILL END THE WAR IN IRAQ...IF PEOPLE TRULY THOUGHT ABOUT JUST THAT IDEA, HOW MORAL IS IT TO FORCE A WAR UPON SOMEWHERE ELSE, TO DEFEND OUR LAND HERE...why don't they phrase it that way? 
 
because obama and hillary are supporters of the corporate interests too, otherwise they couldn't get elected, that's the corporate capital nature of our democracy!
 
(P.S. LLOYD: ON 9/11, I watched the second tower get hit live on Television, I thought it was a movie trailer.... 
 
I decided, immediately, the correct response to this act was Surrender.
 
Anyone crazy enough, desperate enough to do this, would do it again. 
 
The only way to prevent that is to surrender, so they won't have reason to do it again.
 
Of course, I presented my viewpoint to many in the ensuing days, they were aghast, or worse, but...when they asked me to expound, I simply asked, "To whom ought we surrender?" and of course, no one knew who had sent the planes that day at the time...and so, since they couldn't tell me to whom we ought to surrender, I asked them how could we go to war...
 
If you are at WAR, you MUST know to WHOM MIGHT YOU SURRENDER.
 
To whom ought we surrender since we're in a "War on Terror"?
 
If you don't know, then we aren't at war at all...one cannot proclaim war on a tactic, there are RULES and LAWS of war, and BUSHCO BROKE ALL OF THEM!
 
Justice grinds slowly, but there will be justice in due time...)
 
PPS ( and a few more comments below):
DON'T DISCOUNT THE ARMEGEDDON CROWD WHO ARE BECOMING QUICKLY ISOLATED AS MCCAIN SHEDS PREACHERS...IRAQ ISN'T ABOUT OIL, IT IS ABOUT FULFILLMENT OF GOD'S PROPHESY DON'T YOU KNOW.
 
END TIMES, TITANTIC BATTLES, WEST VERSUS EAST, CRUSADES, GOTTA LOVE IT!
 
 
 
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Lloyd wrote:
Michael.
 
My reference to "primitive" societies was intended to mean those that began to form as early man came down out of the trees.
(((
I WOULD REFER TO THEM AS EARLY SOCIETIES BUT SURE!  
 
You really are asking, what is the nature of human nature?  !!!
 
What made "proto-humans" different?  What was our competitive advantage? 
(FIRE?  LANGUAGE?  SOCIAL RULES THAT ENGENDERED BETTER RETENTION OF KNOWLEDGE OVER GENERATIONS???)
 
BUILT IN RULES of right and wrong are a huge part of it! 
(These are required to have humans be social creatures to begin with!)
 
However, as I've discussed at length elsewhere, It's not nice to (try to) fool mother nature...our "success" as a species may be quite shortlived...
 
)))
 
However small, the Muslim secularists currently control key Arab states.  Money is certainly at work now, and is especially frustrating since we supply the capital from our purchase of oil and drugs.  The secular Arab states caused us little or no trouble when they were broke.
 
But now what should we do, or not do?
 
 Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael 
To: Lloyd
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Culture

Hi all, back again, just returned and let me add some quick comments "inline" below for your fascination..
This is cursory, and I'm exhausted from my vacation (how does that work?) so here's something...

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Lloyd > wrote:

Sue, Nancy & Michael,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

you are welcome.

 

This all started with Sue's and my email exchanges regarding religion and culture.  It is my hottest topic because of the Mideast situation, the Arab theocracies and the growth of militant Muslimism.

Okay, wondered where it came from.

 

Sue and I agreed that we were both non-secular members of different cultures, both cultures having similar religious traditions.  My first argument was that cultures had to grow from religion, but from your emails, I see that there is much more to the subject.  I enjoyed Michael's comment that the God of the Old Testament is a "farmer's god".

 

You make the point that cultures "grow up" in a society, and it makes sense that this is so, but is not some form of isolation required for a people to form and maintain a culture?  Examples are geography, e.g. oceans, deserts or mountains; prejudice, e.g. Jews, Mormons; language, e.g. the Amish.  Cultures can be maintained by the same forces that supported their beginnings, by indoctrination of the young, as well as forces from government or a priesthood.

Yes exactly.  What you see today (cultures clashing!  it is called "globalization"!) is because there are no longer natural barriers for ideas to be exchanged.  THINGS ARE GETTING OUT OF "CONTROL" AND SOME DON'T LIKE THAT (Chinese Gov't over the past 60 years, Myanmar's dictators, North Korean, Albania, Cuba, etc. are the extreme examples...)
 
The learning of Language (and therefore the basic passing of CULTURE) is done in family groups.  It is hard to sway family tradition in a generation or two...generally, we do things like our parents...cooking, working, voting, etc.
 

 

In a primitive society,

(Sorry, I understand the term "primitive society" in a much different way...all cultures and societies, are "equal" from a sophistication point of view, (all societies have to solve the same problems, in order to continue their cultural socialization as you said above...therefore there are no such things as "primitive" societies!!!)  I'll assume that you mean cultures without the technological (so called) advantages we enjoy)
 

whatever their culture's beginnings, natural disasters like fire, flood, tornado, hurricane, drought, earthquake, disease, death, eclipses, and so on, were frightening phenomena.  These mysterious happenings provided fertile ground for the empowerment of individuals promising to identify the supernatural powers behind the mischief and prescribe (religious) behaviors to placate them. 

How "god" or "spirit" or "supernatural" get's into the picture is as you say. 
Think about what else is "promised" by our western religious tradition:
We have souls (whatever you think that is, about as easy to define as god(s))
We will live forever through our souls.  THAT SEEMS to be of interest to people...
When you dream of dead grandma, that's evidence of souls.
When you have or hear of, a near death experience, and white light is radient down the tunnel of love...that's evidence of everlasting life.
Any unexplained phenomena: 
Why did the fire burn my third child but not my second?  God Knows!
et. etc. etc.   you can see how all of this can be institutionalized in many incarnations, so as to attract those who are currently looking for explanations...
 

Motivation to seek power seems so basic to human nature that I don't see how any culture, whatever its beginnings, could avoid coming under religious dominance at some point in their history.

Dominance?  Not really.  FOLLOW THE MONEY.  IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ECONOMY, WHATEVER ELSE IS GOING ON...THE RELIGIOUS AND THOSE WHO MAINTAIN THEIR KEEP THROUGH DONATIONS OF THE SHEEP, ARE ONLY AT THE BECK AND CALL OF THOSE WHO OWN THE CAPITAL AND MEANS.  They are the great benefactors afterall, Medici for example, merchants who donate huge sums to the church, for their own purposes...

 

We know how desperately those in power will take measures to cling to their power.  How did the Western democracies ever implement the separation of church and state?

REVOLUTION - FIRST THE RELATIVELY MINOR US OVERTHROW OF THE BRITISH, FOLLWED BY THE TRULY MAGNIFICENT FRENCH REVOLUTION...THE LAST TIME PEOPLE HAD THE SAME MILITARY MEANS AS THE GOVERNMENT, but that's another story...the despotic and inbred royals and religious could not control the will of the people, as long as the people were as well armed as their own troops...

 

Although not a guarantee, are not non-secular Arab governments pre-requisite to a peaceful middle east?  How will it come about?  Does it matter?

It matters plenty.  MOST MUSLIMS JUST WANT TO HAVE A PEACEFUL PLACE TO RAISE THEIR KIDS, HOW SURPRISING, YES, THEY ARE HUMAN.
 
Don't be taken in by the koolaid of neocons.
 
Extreme Muslim Radicalism is a very small number of humans...

 

 

More comments please.

sURE.
 
1. TERRORISM CANNOT BE FOUGHT WITH MILITARY MEANS.  TERRORISM IS A TACTIC, IT ISN'T DETERED BY WAR.
2. THE NEOCONS REDEFINED WHAT THEY CONSIDERED TERRORISM, IN ORDER TO HAVE A MILITARY RESPONSE.
3.  fOLLOW THE MONEY.  OIL IS UP, DEFENSE IS UP...HELLO~
 
Yet, after a trillion dollars of Iraq/Afghan expenditure we are less safe. 
 
How very interesting.  They have used a few deranged survivors of the Crusades - Osama Bin Laden and his Saudi funders who also support the Madrassas...to terrify the American people to unending war.
 
Welcome John McCain, his lobbyists and the entire Military Industrial Complex...
 
Don't you think, if we spent 1,000,000,000,000 on software and hardware and satellites we could have information in a palatable form delivered world wide for everyone (10 times over).
 
(there are 6.8 billion people, we'd spend $130 per person (not everyone needs hardware) and it would be enough....)
 
How about, along the way, we spent part for Potable water for the millions who have none, and condoms for the women to control their fertility, and then, maybe, we'll be able to introduce the concepts necessary for continued human occupation of the planet.

 

Best,

Lloyd


-
Cheers,

Frish

Sunday, May 18, 2008

An erudite exchange...

(I'm off for a 10 day vacation in San Diego, enjoy this and please do write/call if you feel the inclination!)
 
Les Knight is the originator of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (We're VeHEMenT about population reduction!)
 
He gets interviewed fairly regularly, and recently was on the radio with some twit in Texas named Alex something (I don't want to give Alex any advertising)...
 
Here's Les' response to one of Alex's fans, in reaction to hearing he ought not procreate!
 
He  begins this post by warning we Volunteers (those of us who have chosen not to have children) that some of us post pretty depressing stuff, like the story last week about a family with 18 children (who happen to be part of a Christian Sect that is going to repopulate the white world or some such)...So, here's Les' means of cheering us up!

Posted by: "Les U. Knight" les@vhemt.org   lesuknight

Sun May 18, 2008 4:26 pm (PDT)

Some here have mentioned that they get depressed by some postings,
and especially links to extreme natalist sites. So, I thought I'd
give warning on this one. I think messages like this are very funny:

"Just listened to you on Alex's show...what a fucking inarticulate
fuck are you!!! "

Maybe he could coach me on how to become articulate.

Les

Monday, May 12, 2008

Civilization's last chance - a bad bet.

Bill:
Nice article, as far as it goes.  I've included my Letter to the Times in reaction, below...
Here's my theory:
Life evolves by taking over energy niches (my brothers eat at noon, I'll eat at midnight).
Humans evolved, alongside our CULTURE, to take over energy niches too: hands, brains, fire, bipedalism, language, tools, clothes, shelter, agriculture, health care...our culture and physical evolution together lead, inexorably, to where we are today.
Inuit didn't evolve in place, they competed quite well with polar bear for dominance of the arctic energy niches however, thanks to their Culture!
Human culture has now "evolved" to dominate all natural systems, and our over population is the evidence...nothing "natural" can stop our continued growth and impacts on the environment.
So, culture works just like biology to take over energy niches. 
Which makes everything "man made" quite natural indeed.
It's simply that the rest of life on the planet will not withstand us, and, while we can clearly dominate, do you seriously believe we can MANAGE the myriad natural systems within which we've caused chaotic change?
We're obviously quite smart enough to overwhelm nature, but no way are we wise enough to manage it.
Plastics and the Pacific Gyre say it all...just the shadow of the floating flotsam has chaotic influence on various systems.
Since no one understands the systems we've already upset, you cannot show that actions we take (or don't take) won't make things worse...that's how bad things really are!
Therefore, www.vhemt.org is the least painful outcome, given the givens, and, in my educated opinion, the only moral choice...to minimize the die off of humanity and minimize humanity's impacts on Earth's systems.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael (Frish) Frishberg
Date: Sun, May 11, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Subject: Civilization's last chance - a bad bet.
To: letters@latimes.com

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-mckibben11-2008may11,0,7434369.story
Human Caused Global Climate Chaos is the inevitable result of our profligate ways...and reflects our individual human selfishness as accomodated by capitalism!
NOTHING on the horizon shows any hope for a significant decrease in CO2 and other emissions, and the article didn't mention the failure of fisheries, drought and lack of potable water, deforestation, deglaciation, and other traumas...since the real problem is overpopulation of humans...
Corporations control the future, NOT GOVERNMENTS, and profits are their mission, not people or climate.
To reduce the inevitable suffering, I choose to be childfree. 
Any other choice is immoral, given the future we've created.
www.vhemt.org
--
Cheers,

Frish

Sunday, May 11, 2008

Zimba for President

Zimba said:
Thank you for not breeding (penalties will include mandatory sterilization, public service and substantial fines to be directed
towards improvements for Earth's ecology and wildlife habitat restoration)! Zimba for President
While I understand and appreciate your tongue firmly implanted in cheek, I also sympathize with your stance.
 
I am the "fearless leader" of a group that is held in even lower regard than VHEMT.
 
That group, and this, includes many member who have made voluntary and personal choices, and are in no way interested in actively taking a political role.
 
You recognize that in order to achieve success, powerful forces will need to be moved into agreement with our position.
 
Not likely to happen.  But it is nice that you are interested in making it so.

Civilizations Last Chance? I'll bet against!

THE LA TIMES HAD A VERY INTERESTING EDITORIAL ON THE FRONT OF THE OPINION SECTION TODAY.
HERE'S THE ARTICLE AND MY LETTER TO THE EDITOR...
 
Human Caused Global Climate Chaos is the inevitable result of our profligate ways...and reflects our individual human selfishness as accomodated by capitalism!
 
NOTHING on the horizon shows any hope for a significant decrease in CO2 and other emissions, and the article didn't mention the failure of fisheries, drought and lack of potable water, deforestation, deglaciation, and other traumas...since the real problem is overpopulation of humans...
 
Corporations control the future, NOT GOVERNMENTS, and profits are their mission, not people or climate.
 
To reduce the inevitable suffering, I choose to be childfree. 
Any other choice is immoral, given the future we've created.

Friday, May 9, 2008

DO YOGA, HELP BURMA!!!

The following is from Stella, a Yoga Instructor Friend of mine, I trust her, but check out Avaaz on your own if you feel like sharing...and, please think about global climate chaos this weekend...it will continue to have more human consequences going forward...
 
(((LA Brights bright-286ers- see you SUNDAY!  REALITY NOW!!!)))
 
Dear Yogis,

AS YOU ALL MAY KNOW, SUNDAYS I TEACH A DONATION CLASS AND THE PROCEEDS GO TO CHARITY.  BELOW IS THE CHARITY THAT I AND HOPEFULLY YOU WILL SUPPORT.  COME AND JOIN THIS CONSCIOUS COMMUNITY AND DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR YOURSELF AND SUPPORT THE MONKS EFFORTS IN BURMA. 

PEACE AND LIGHT, STELLA

In the wake of a massive cyclone, a shocking 100,000 Burmese may be dead.
 More are missing. A million are homeless.  But what's happening in Burma is not just a natural disaster--it's also a catastrophe of bad leadership.

Humanitarian relief is urgently needed, but Burma's government could easily delay, divert or misuse any aid. Yesterday the International Burmese Monks Organization, including many leaders of the democracy protests last fall, launched a new effort to provide relief through Burma's powerful grass roots network of monasteries--the most trusted institutions in the country and currently the only source of housing and support in many devastated communities. Click below to help the Burmese people with a donation and see a video appeal to Avaaz from a leader of the monks:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/burma_cyclone/15.php

Giving to the monks is a smart, fast way to get aid directly to Burma's people. Governments and international aid organizations are important, but face challenges--they may not be allowed into Burma, or they may be forced to provide aid according to the junta's rules. And most will have to spend large amounts of money just setting up operations in the country. The monks are already on the front lines of the aid effort--housing, feeding, and supporting the victims of the cyclone since the day it struck. The International Burmese Monks Organization will send money directly to each monastery through their own networks, bypassing regime controls.

Last year, more than 800,000 of us around the world stood with the Burmese people as they rose up against the military dictatorship. The government lost no time then in dispatching its armies to ruthlessly crush the non-violent democracy movement--but now, as tens of thousands die, the junta's response is slow and threatens to divert precious aid into the corrupt regime's pockets.

The monks are unlikely to receive aid from governments or large humanitarian organizations, but they have a stronger presence and trust among the Burmese people than both. If we all chip in a little bit, we can help them to make a big difference. Click here to donate:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/burma_cyclone/15.php

With hope,

Ricken, Ben, Graziela, Paul, Iain, Veronique, Pascal, Galit and the whole Avaaz team

PS: Here are some links to more information:

For more information about Avaaz's work to support the Burmese people, click here:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/burma_report_back 

For more information about the cyclone, the humanitarian crisis, and the political dimension, see these articles:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/IMD_issued_specific_and_precise_advisories_to_Myanmar_IMD/articleshow/3016493.cms
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/05/08/myanmar/?iref=mpstoryview
http://www.irrawaddy.org/opinion_story.php?art_id=11836
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/07/world/asia/07aid.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7385205.stm

------------------------------------
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To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to info@avaaz.org. You can also send postal mail to our New York office:260 Fifth Avenue, 9th floor, New York, NY 10001 U.S.A.

If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org.

Parking in West Hollywood

I parked in the red.
I walked across the street, went up to my apartment, delivered my mother her medication, walked back to my car to find the officer beginning to write his citation.
 
Across the street, parked in the red, was a commercial truck (plumbing).
 
When I asked, the officer said, "They told me they were leaving soon.  If you had had your hazard lights on, I would have thought you were in these apartments and returning soon."
 
I may park for 90 seconds in the red, but I don't put my hazard lights on when it isn't a hazard.
 
Please forgive this ticket, it is obvious that the parking laws are not consistently applied.

Thursday, May 8, 2008

114-Year-Old Man Takes Longevity Keys to the Grave

LIVE LONG!  
 
 
I especially loved the absolutely NO KNOWN ANSWERS attitude of this article.
 
Frish's Special Diet for a Life Worth Living:
           Only eat food you like!

Our military's response to the disaster in Myanmar...

Gates said the military was moving aircraft and ships into place to
help deliver humanitarian supplies once permission is granted.

"I cannot image us going in without the permission of the Myanmar
government," Gates said at a Pentagon press conference with Chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen.

"It's all tied to sovereignty, which we respect whether it's on the
ground or in the air," Mullen said.

{EXCEPT IF OIL IS INVOLVED, OR IF THE PRESIDENT HOLDS A GRUDGE AGAINST
THE LEADER OF ANOTHER COUNTRY, OR, IF THE COUNTY MAY HAVE WMD, OR THE
CAPABILITY TO PRODUCE SAME, OR, THEY SUPPORT AL QAEDA OR SEEM LIKE
THEY MIGHT HAVE SUPPORTED 911 EVEN THO' THEY DIDN'T, OR IF THE COUNTRY
NAMED IS IRAQ, SINCE WE INVADED AND OCCUPIED THAT COUNTRY WITH NO
RESPECT FOR SOVERIGNTY OR RULES OF WAR...OTHER THAN THAT I CANNOT
IMAGINE THE RELUCTANCE OF THE DESPOTIC REGIME TO GIVE UP THEIR
BORDER'S SOVERIGN PROTECTIONS!}

Wednesday, May 7, 2008

Sportsman's Double

I ended up with an older woman at a club last night. She looked OK
for a 61-year-old.

As I drank I found myself thinking that she probably had a hot daughter.

We drank a bit, and had a bit of a snuggle, and then she asked if I'd
ever had a Sportsman's Double.

'What's that?' I asked

'It's a mother and daughter threesome,' she said.

I said, 'No' - excitedly.

We drank a bit more, then she says that tonight was 'my lucky night'.

I went back to her place. She put on the hall light and shouted upstairs:

'Mum, you still awake?'

Tuesday, May 6, 2008