Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Re: Responding to Fred's weekly newletter

I was surprised.  I was surprised it wasn't 99.99 percent!  I am more surprised at your response.  How can you defend Republicans after what they are doing to our liberties?
 
It is too funny that the NRA ridiculous gun stance (that won't hold up in court, once a case is finally brought) is what has your attention Fred, while domestic spying and a new bill that will allow the military and police to work together in a common command structure during "times of extreme emergency" is going through Congress. 
 
Isn't that what you are REALLY worried about?  If it isn't it ought to be. 
 
That should be the topic for you next newsletter, the REAL erosion of our liberties, not the hypothetical loss of a 2nd amendment "right" to which no one actually has priviledge.
 
Either you don't deny the NRA is a corporate driven scheme to keep guns from being controlled, or you actually believe they are looking out for your (supposed) 2nd amendment rights (which don't include not having guns controlled by the way!).
 
Who wants to ban guns?  I want them controlled, just like cars.  Registered licensed INSURED owners just like a car...keep track of them, just like a car.  They are dangerous, just like a car. 
 
They ought to be under control.  And TAXED more than cigarettes.  And when used in a crime the registered owner ought to be brought up on charges too.  Bullets too.  Traceable after they are shot.
 
Guns kept at community shooting ranges makes a lot of sense. 
 
Guns in people's houses...not so much.
 
I am also surprised that something so anti-human as a gun would be something you, a supposed pro-life proponent, would want anywhere near his neighborhood.
 
On 11/13/07, Fred wrote:
 
You sound surprised that 83% of NRA money for politicians goes to Republicans.  Why would they wish to support Democrats who are determined to ban guns?  Does it make sense to give money to one's enemies?

Monday, November 12, 2007

A Different Shade of Bright!

(From a review of her new book...not to be mentioned here!)
 
Vonette Bright is the widow of Dr. Bill Bright.
The Brights are the co-founders of Campus Crusade for Christ ministries.

Responding to Fred's weekly newletter

The pointing out of hypocrisy is a familiar and time honored tradition Fred, thanks for sharing a half-hearted attempt at it by the NRA.  I'll simply continue that tradition by pointing out just a few more hypocrisies in the lead article you sent.
 
Let's consider the following paragraph from your lead article this week...
 
"HSUS has long benefited from the use of the term 'humane society." Many erroneously believe HSUS operates animal shelters, rescue groups and other animal welfare operations. Well-meaning people give money, thinking they are assisting the operation of these local and regional organizations that do so much to help animals. However, the truth is HSUS has never operated an animal shelter of any kind. Ever."
 
REREAD THOSE SENTENCES AGAIN.  Just because their donors are confused is no reason to fault the Humane Society!  The author doesn't fault the actions of the HSUS, only their donors!  Whose fault is it that the donors are not cognizant of the real work of the HSUS?  Donor Beware is certainly a siren's call regarding charities...
 
The National Rifle Association benefits from the mistaken belief that it is protecting member's constitutional rights, when actually the NRA is the commercial gun lobby posing as constitutionalists.
 
Here's the corporate sponsor page of the NRA.
 
It is to laugh Fred.  Everyone of them a gun and/or bullet manufacturer or retailer.  Do you support the NRA's position that the second amendment applies to armor piercing bullets or assault or automatic weapons which therefore to be legally available without restriction? 
 
On a tangential note Fred: 
 
18% of human caused global warming is due to raising domesticated animals and our appetite for meat.  Maybe PETA's onto something with their vegan attitude!  (Except, I forgot, you deny human caused global warming is real...)
 
BY THE WAY FRED, SINCE YOU BELIEVE IN FREEDOM...YOU SHOULD KNOW THE FOLLOWING ABOUT THE NRA.  SEE WHERE THEIR MONEY IS BEING SPENT ON CONGRESS:  83% REPUBLICAN.
 
 
NOW, SEE WHAT THAT REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO PREVENT, SPEAKING OF FREEDOM AND BY THE PEOPLE ETC.
 
 
That is OUR EMAIL Fred, We The People's!  That's what the "Freedom loving" NRA supports.
 
Funny line:  "PETA's PR Machine is Relentless", but not the NRA's PR Machine? 
 
Frish's Funnier line: "PETA doesn't kill people, bullets kill people"
 
(Fred, I'm a carnivore and don't get PETA at all, but I think the promotion of guns by the NRA is far and away the "anti-human" stance!)
 
Milking Animals

"Perhaps more than any other public interest group in America, the radical animal 'rights' organizations have two faces. There's the one they present to the public and (more importantly) to potential donors. Then there's the other face, the true one, which encompasses a philosophy that is more anti-human than pro-animal.

"The two largest and best-funded animal 'rights' groups, Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), both rely on financial support that often comes from people who have no idea what their real agendas are. In many cases, that support is based on misunderstanding, or even deception.

"HSUS has long benefited from the use of the term 'humane society." Many erroneously believe HSUS operates animal shelters, rescue groups and other animal welfare operations. Well-meaning people give money, thinking they are assisting the operation of these local and regional organizations that do so much to help animals. However, the truth is HSUS has never operated an animal shelter of any kind. Ever. And PETA employees have been arrested, prosecuted and convicted for illegally disposing of animals killed in its 'shelter' operations. [. . .]

"PETA has gone to great lengths to indoctrinate kids and young adults by creating materials, including comic books and videos, that teach its radical agenda, and then [by] getting sympathetic teachers to use those materials in the classroom. One of PETA's comic books proclaims on the cover, 'Your Daddy Kills Animals!' and warns kids to keep the family dog away from him. Why? Because dad is a fisherman.

"PETA's PR machine is relentless. PETA selects a 'vegetarian of the year' from among notable celebrities and presents that person as a rule model for children. Each year it attacks restaurant chains that serve meat, circuses that have animal acts and, of course, any pharmaceutical company that uses animals to develop life-saving medicines."

-- "Two Faces," by Chris W. Cox, America's First Freedom, November 2007, pages 41-42. Address: National Rifle Association of America, 11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, Virginia 22030-9400. Phone: 703-267-1000.

Sunday, November 11, 2007

Human Cloning. Oh Baby Oh Baby!

UN report: Human cloning ban needed Sat Nov 10, 2:52 PM ET

LONDON - The international community faces a stark choice: outlaw human cloning or prepare for the creation of cloned humans, U.N. researchers said Saturday.

Previous attempts to reach a binding worldwide treaty foundered over divisions on whether to outlaw all cloning or permit cloning of cells for research.

The best solution may be to ban human cloning, but to allow countries to conduct strictly controlled therapeutic research, including stem cell research, according to the report from the Japan-based United Nations University Institute for Advanced Studies.

Almost all countries oppose human cloning and more than 50 nations have introduced laws banning it. But lack of binding global legislation gives scientists an opening to create human clones in countries where bans do not exist.

"Failure to outlaw reproductive cloning means it is just a matter of time until cloned individuals share the planet," said Brendan Tobin, a human rights lawyer who co-authored the report.

"If failure to compromise continues, the world community must accept responsibility and ensure that any cloned individual receives full human rights protection," he said.

Cloning research proponents argue it offers great hope for producing replacement tissue and the potential for a cure for diseases such as cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and diabetes.

The report recommends permitting cloning cells for research — but not cloning aimed at duplicating a person or animal . It also calls for strict controls to prevent the uncontrolled production and destruction of embryos.

Saturday, November 10, 2007

Alien Species Secretes "Yellow Stuff"

These UK "Ladybirds" (aka Ladybugs - a colorful flying beetle) are another example of what our inadvertent geographic re-distribution of creatures (ballast mussels, killer bees) and plants (how about kudzu or water hyacinth) go beyond the natural system's capability of quickly or easily containing the invaders.
 
The human "experiment" on the biosphere has been undertaken without understanding of base conditions and variables.
The human "experiment" on the biosphere injects new chemistry into the food chain (pharma drugs in the water supply, worldwide, estrogen-like insecticides, etc.).
The human "experiment" on the biosphere increases the surface temperature of the planet (via greenhouse gases and paving over the ground for example).
The human "experiment" on the biosphere provides more plastic than plankton in many thousands (millions?) of square miles of ocean water.  Just the shadow and reflection of light caused by that plastic has unknown (and not good) affects on plants and animals.
The human "experiment" continues, unabated by any social or legal construct, as humans overpopulate, deforest, overfish, pollute, introduce new chemicals, etc. etc. etc.
 
So, the "yellow stuff" flies...
--
Cheers,
Frish

Per Brian A's post...

"Human civilization is so much built on the idea of growth and expansion."
 
Human "culture" has always been growth oriented.
 
Culture does everything to "foster life" (human life) and to thwart any natural governors on our behavior.
 
Human nature cannot trump mother nature, in the long run.
 
A few twitches of Gaia's tail and we'll be dusted right off the planet.
 
The irony is that our meddling (thanks to our culture, gotta have light and heat and cars and . . .) with the chemistry of the planet's climate is the impetus for our demise.
 
Frish

Thursday, November 8, 2007

"you have to have good skin and be blond"


Beauty pageant titleholder and sometime "Entertainment Tonight" and "Access Hollywood" reporter Maria Menounos can sum up sexy in three words: "Victoria's Secret lingerie."

Wednesday, November 7, 2007

Missing the Kids!

 
"We feel joy for what's happening, but we're crying and missing the kids."
 
We're crying and missing the kids, and we're crying FOR the next round of kids.
 
Poor couple, they will be blamed...

WE MUST BE INFORMED (or, what a great stocking stuffer!)

Dear LA Brights and others copied:
 
Two topics tonight:
First...I was interviewed by an LA Times reporter today discussing what it means to me to identify as a Jew and a Bright, why I "joined" The Brights, why I believe or don't believe what I believe, etc., so I shared loads of fun stuff (including that I, Fearless Leader of the LA Brights, was speaking as an individual...hope she heard that part!). 
 
For example:
 
There is NO REASON for god or anything supernatural to explain life, the universe or anything else.
 
I don't know how life started, no one does, but once it did only natural laws controlled it.
 
I don't understand how the universe could start from nothing, but I maintain that some scientists either did already or would someday.
 
We're nothing more than mobile minerals, a natural result of the conditions that were local to our part of the universe, and cannot affect the universe via thought alone. 
 
What the "intelligent design" crowd have exactly backwards is they see everything seemingly purpose built for our existence!  However, we evolved in this milieu, that's why we're fit to survive altogether, evolution allowed us to survive in whatever environment presented itself.
 
Everything we are is contained within our chemistry, there is nothing else. There is no "soul".
 
Grandma doesn't come back to us in a dream to share stories of the afterlife.
 
Faith and belief are fine, as long as those in positions of power aren't basing their decisions on Revelations, that would be a clear and present danger.
 
Brights ought to organize for social (fun) and political (protecting our freedom of thought) reasons.
 
"Atheists have NOTHING in common" (Copyright Frish!)
 
Why answering to a "higher power" is due to evolution, not existence of god.
 
Why morality is built into our primate behavior, and is necessarily built in or we'd kill each
other and eat the children.
 
From a logical perspective the whole concept of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being is fascinating.  God's thoughts have to travel far faster than the speed of light.  So, on what particle reside the thoughts of god?
 
How Nazi concentration camp films shown to us interminably during Jewish weekend religious school, had a lot to do with me being god free.  If people could treat each other like that, not only is there no "just" or other kind of god, but I promised myself to never have kids, so that wouldn't/couldn't happen to them.  
 
Not bad...on the road between sales calls!
Some article will be published sometime (next three weeks?) so we shall see.
 
 
SECONDLY:
On another note - GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT THIS ONE! 
Looks like a great way to spend 12/25/07, for the matinee! 
This was from some Christian Group's email intercepted by a friendly.

Subject: WE MUST BE INFORMED
PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO HAS  CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN!

THE GOLDEN COMPASS, a new movie targeted at children,
will be released December 7, 2007. This movie is based on a the
first book of a trilogy by atheist Philip Pullman. In the final book
a boy and girl kill God so they can do as they please.
Pullman left little doubt about his intentions when he said in a
2003 interview that "My books are about killing God."

The movie is a watered down version of the first book and is
designed to be very attractive in the hope unsuspecting parents
will take their children to see the movie and that the children
will want the books for Christmas.

The movie has a well known cast, including Nicole Kidman,
Kevin Bacon, and Sam Elliott. It will probably be advertised
extensively, so it is crucial that we get the word out to warn
parents to avoid this movie.

You can research this for yourself:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp
(FRISH SEZ: YES, GET THE WORD OUT - BUY THE BOOKS AND SEE THE MOVIE!)

Tuesday, November 6, 2007

A JDate Pick Up Haiku Line

Funny?  Yes, I am.
Charismatic Pheromones
And I write haiku
 
(Only Copied YOU...What do you think of the above? )
 
(Pick your stanza and let me know since YOU know who YOU are...this is a multi-purpose note and blog entry!  Being an environMENTAList (and more than a bit mental as well YOU know) I think it is time to conserve bits and have multi-purpose emails and other electronic delivery mechanisms.))
 
Only Copied YOU                                
Homer is where the heart is!                  
Just getting warmed up...
 
Only Copied YOU
Tell me about job prospects  ---
Dying of suspense!
 
Only Copied YOU
Since JDate is your hobby
And, you do get it.
 
Only Copied YOU
There is a brand new comet
It mean anything?
 
Only Copied YOU
Real nice website, sticky!
Kept simple stupid!

Sunday, November 4, 2007

New day, new date, better result.

Last night's experiences with JDate got even uglier, but that's another story.
Today, getting back on the horse that threw me, I again visited JDate to attempt to find a friend.
Read an interesting profile, and she happened to be online.  We chatted amicably, and even decided to meet, but she suddenly remembered she had a hair cut appointment at 4PM.
Not "brushed off" easily, I suddenly remembered I wanted to watch her get her hair cut.
She said (to my utter astonishment) "Sure!"
I mean, how many women will let you see their "Sunday Morning Face" BEFORE their "Saturday Night Face"?  Wow, what confidence eh?!
So we met at a Starbucks, went to her salon (her first time with this hair dresser, so she was on a double first date) then went out to dinner, picked up my dad at the nursing home, came back to our condo to meet mom, and then I drove her back to her car.
Even after all that, she wrote:
"Thank you again for dinner and an amazing first date. Loved every moment."
Phew, I haven't lost "the touch" after all!  And, she saw my living arrangements and is still talking to me.  That's definitely points ahead...
(P.S. She actually liked the duct tape wallet, now I'm getting nervous...)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael (Frish) Frishberg <
Date: Nov 3, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: What she said after our JDate...
To:


We had a nice breakfast together. 
She asked if I owned the print shop, or if I held any patents.  And, wanted to know if my father held any patents. 
Then she had to run to the gym (so to speak).  
I sent her a thank you note.
I received this response.
"I'm really too shallow and mean to date you. Even though you will probably think this is the kiss of death, I would want to be friends with you. You're a cute guy, but I have issues. I'm sure I'm already dissappointing you. Gotta run now. Late for dinner."
I gotta admit - I'm dissappointed (sic) with her subtlety but impressed with her honesty! 
(P.S.  She did comment about my duct tape wallet...the true litmus test of potential compatibility (or, the outer boundary of tolerance!))



--
Cheers,

Frish

Saturday, November 3, 2007

What she said after our JDate...

We had a nice breakfast together. 
 
She asked if I owned the print shop, or if I held any patents.  And, wanted to know if my father held any patents. 
 
Then she had to run to the gym (so to speak).  
 
I sent her a thank you note.
 
I received this response.
 
"I'm really too shallow and mean to date you. Even though you will probably think this is the kiss of death, I would want to be friends with you. You're a cute guy, but I have issues. I'm sure I'm already dissappointing you. Gotta run now. Late for dinner."
 
I gotta admit - I'm dissappointed (sic) with her subtlety but impressed with her honesty! 
 
(P.S.  She did comment about my duct tape wallet...the true litmus test of potential compatibility (or, the outer boundary of tolerance!))

Thursday, November 1, 2007

Psycho Songs: Look out, There's a Monster Coming

Scientists have bred "super mice" with some amazing amount of some chemical that allows them to breed longer and run forever basically.  They eat a lot more than normal mice, but they don't gain weight.
 
 
Reminds me of a warning, in the form of a song from 1968 or so...

LOOK OUT THERE'S A MONSTER COMING
Vivian Stanshall

Lonely, unmarried, looking for love,
Life was passing me by.
So I sent off my photo, hobbies and age;
Magazine marriage I tried.
They say for centuries lovely Japanese girls
Have been trained in the art of pleasing men.
Be lonely no more, open destiny's door.
For one dollar they arrange a meeting.

My image was wrong, I didn't like me,
So I changed my personality.
I bought a delux Merseybeat wig
But it was a size too big.
What confidence in my new built-up shoes,
So smart for winter or summer.
Undetectable in normal everyday use.

Look out there's a monster coming!

Bye-bye binoculars and macintosh,
Everything is just great.
I take elocution, learn to speak posh
But still I can't find a mate.
Be popular, learn to play the guitar,
In seven days you could be strumming.
Be sociable, learn kissing technique.

Look out there's a monster coming!

Carnaby clothes, I reshaped my nose,
Plastic surgery's best.
To cut down my weight off comes my left leg.
I pass a swimming costume test.
Are my sideboards too long,
Don't my aftershave pong?
I know my new nose ain't runnin'.
What's wrong with my tie?
Am I getting too high?

Look out there's a monster coming!

Disfiguring and ugly, my facial hair
I had removed electrically.
I rejuvenated my energy cells
And regained my virility (grunt grunt).
(He put my hand on my heart?),
(I am changing the part?).
He had a machine for a mummy.
Please be gentle with me:
I come to pieces literally.

Look out there's a monster coming!
Look out there's a monster coming!
Look out there's a monster coming!
(...fade)

Tuesday, October 30, 2007

L.A. Times Article on Bakersfield, Sullivan, and "In God We Trust"

LA Brights and camp followers - a message from Fearless Leader Frish:
 
Stuart found an article we can react to a Bright fashion (thanks Stu, yes the activity we have identified to fulfill our mission is writing letters to editors!).  (On a very tangential note, it suggests to me that we ought to concentrate on local media outlets for our letters/action...let's talk about that at our next meeting (John, thanks)!) 
 
Each of us is perfectly capable of writing in reaction to the article, or any other you happen to notice.  No one in this org will tell you (before hand) what to say or not!  (We may have discussions and construtive critiqueing later, but hey, that's how we get better!)
 
I am certainly available via phone or email should you care for consultation.  I have a fairly good record of getting letters published considering how few I've written (I've written about 10 to the LA Times in the last 4 years and 3 have been published so far...)
 
I responded to the author, and to letters@latimes.com.  I didn't mention Brights or LA Brights or atheists, but did use the "non-religious" (a rather neutral term I think!)  Probably increases the publishing chances, but I was published within the last 90 days I think, so they won't take mine anyway.
 
Here are other topics I didn't cover that are possible letter themes:
Idolatry - isn't worshipping in public and display of this type of thing idol worship?  Thought that went out with the Old Testament.
 
Is it simply idle worship, since the faithful seem to need reminding wherever they go?
 
"In God we trust" is simply a strange sign to display in any case.  What does it really mean?  If it is meaning free, as I suspect, then why display it?
 
Remain positive in your ultimate presentation, our mission remains to promote the naturalistic worldview.
 
Write a letter and don't send it...that's a great first step!
 
So, there is a lot to read, and speed is always of the essence, so respond if you wish to, but do it soon!
 
Thanks!
 
Also, I'm very serious about continuous improvement.  If you see something that I wrote to the LA Times that could be improved, let's talk!
 
Finally, if you find something that LA Brights ought to respond to, please share!
 
My letter follows, then the article that spawned my spew! 
-----------------------------------------------
Subject: mention the article you are writing to them about...
 
"'In God We Trust' is the perfect expression of what it takes to be a good American," she says, "because from my perspective as a believer, patriotism means love of God and love of country."

Dear Editor and Steve:
 
The essence of being American is TOLERANCE, therefore recognition that the "other" is also an American...and not excluded or included by some religious or jingoistic yardstick, or any other criteria.
 
Many patriotic and moral Americans believe that protecting the rights of minorities, in this case the non-religious amongst us, is more important than an expression of religion within the public commons.
 
"In God we trust" is an inappropriate expression by government of spirituality/religion. It should be removed from our public vocabulary, in the pledge, architecturally, on currency, or wherever it occurs.

Frish
(full name and address and phone number follows)
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Stuart
Did you say that the LA Brights were looking for letter-writing opportunities?
-Stuart

From the Los Angeles Times

She wants a higher power at City Hall

Five years after getting Bakersfield to place 'In God We Trust' in its council chambers, activist takes her motto campaign national.

By Steve Chawkins
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

October 28, 2007

BAKERSFIELD -- Next time you see God in City Hall, you might have Jacquie Sullivan to thank -- or blame, depending on your point of view.

Five years ago, the Bakersfield City Council member lobbied hard to get "In God We Trust" displayed over the city's seal in the council's meeting room.

In the years since, she has persuaded 25 other California cities, from Kerman to Compton, to do the same, sometimes over strenuous protests from residents who see the mounting of the motto as a backdoor effort to foist a religious agenda on local governments.

At 67, Sullivan is undaunted by people she describes as "wanting to remove God from everything." Through her nonprofit, In God We Trust -- America, she aims to have the phrase prominently featured in all 478 of California's city halls and every other city hall in America.

That's just the beginning.

Not long ago, Sullivan suggested to an evangelical pastor named Chad Vegas that posters saying "In God We Trust" be placed in every classroom in the sprawling Kern County High School District. Vegas, a member of the district board, agreed -- opening a contentious debate that is to be settled by the board Nov. 5.

Board President Bob Hampton, a former teacher in the district, said he'll vote against the posters because they reflect a "spiritual agenda."

"The spiritual side of students belongs at home and at church, not in the educational system," said Hampton, who now runs a garbage disposal company.

But some Bakersfield residents see no harm in a tribute to God on classroom walls.

"Most kids in Bakersfield already have that seed planted, but for the others, it couldn't hurt," said 23-year-old Malia Casarez as she headed toward her shift at a haircutting salon. "My daughter is just 9 months old and I'm already scared of sending her to school, with all the things you hear about."

In a family room dotted with figurines of angels and flag-draped eagles, the diminutive, genteel Sullivan says she's always surprised by the hostility over a phrase that Congress chose as the nation's motto in 1956. To arguments that it was a product of the McCarthy-era "Red scare," she replies that it was a comfort for a troubled country then and should, more than ever, be one now.

When Sullivan learned that the new $1 presidential coin has "In God We Trust" inscribed on its rim instead of its face, she was shocked and fired off an op-ed piece to the Bakersfield Californian.

"That just doesn't reflect the will of the people," she said in an interview. "I'm amazed that this could have happened, especially on the president's watch."

Though her nonprofit's board includes well-known Republican political consultant Mark Abernathy and local Christian broadcaster Dan Schaffer, Sullivan casts her effort as neither political nor religious: " 'In God We Trust' is the perfect expression of what it takes to be a good American," she says, "because from my perspective as a believer, patriotism means love of God and love of country."

Vegas agrees completely. The 34-year-old minister said the classroom posters would "send a huge message to students: We'd tell them the schools in this district are not afraid of the word 'God' or the concept of God, and that they don't have to be either."

Shortly after he became a board member last year, Vegas succeeded in renaming the district's winter and spring breaks as Christmas recess and Easter recess. Hampton cast the only dissenting vote.

Vegas said he has received overwhelmingly positive reaction to his current proposal. In a radio interview, he described opponents, who include a couple of fellow board members and the local newspaper's editorial board, as "a group of liberal secular atheists who hate God, who are not patriotic."

He has since backed away from that description, but contends that the newspaper, which ran an editorial headlined "In Chad We Doubt," and other elements of Bakersfield's "aristocracy" do not understand the area's conservatism.

"A lot of people move here because it's a more conservative, family-oriented, faith-oriented place, and the aristocracy doesn't get it," he said.

If Vegas' proposal passes, Sullivan's organization will buy the posters from the American Family Assn., an influential conservative group that offers a step-by-step online guide to "getting the National Motto of the United States of America in local public school classrooms."

Vegas and Sullivan say that, beyond purchasing posters, they have no connection with the group.

In many city halls, the "In God We Trust" effort has proceeded smoothly. Some have mounted the motto on plaques, while others have placed the words over the council dais or even made the phrase a part of their city seal.

In a promotional packet sent to every city clerk in California, Sullivan includes a letter from attorney Brad Dacus of the conservative Pacific Justice Institute, offering free legal counsel in the unlikely event of a lawsuit.

No lawsuit has been filed. Numerous courts have held that "In God We Trust," a fixture on U.S. currency and in many public buildings, carries no unconstitutional religious baggage. A number of states have allowed or required its posting in schools.

In Oklahoma, Americans United for Separation of Church and State distributed "E Pluribus Unum" posters rather than "bring another acrimonious lawsuit into the courts that may not have much chance of winning," said spokesman Rob Boston.

In most of what Sullivan calls her "Yes! Cities," the decision was made swiftly -- although in Oceanside, it was an on-again, off-again campaign that took two years.

More typical was Hawthorne, where City Council member Ginny Lambert said there wasn't a single objection from the council or the community on spending donated funds for an "In God We Trust" plaque.

"I believe all of us have a god except those who may be atheists, so it shouldn't offend anyone," she said.

Sullivan drove down to Hawthorne, which calls itself the home of the Beach Boys, for the unveiling.

"She paved the way for all of us," Lambert said.

A Bakersfield native, Sullivan followed an unusual path into politics.

A divorced mother of four, she was forced to rely on welfare when she returned to Bakersfield after her marriage ended in the Lake Tahoe area. Over the years, she became a successful real estate broker and gained public attention for her activism after her 21-year-old daughter, Joyce, died of AIDS in 1993.

Even now, she visits student groups to show a moving 12-minute video on her daughter's struggle and urge young people to abstain from premarital sex.

"At the end of the presentation, I tell them to get themselves checked out if they think they've done some risky behavior," she said. "And if it turns out they're not infected, I tell them to get down on their knees and thank God."

As a council member, Sullivan is known for expressing consistently conservative views in sometimes rambling presentations.

Sue Benham, the lone council member to vote against "In God We Trust" in 2002, said Sullivan "truly believes in what she's doing" -- although, in Benham's view, the motto is "inappropriate for City Hall and even more so in the classroom. It's a forced expression of faith, not patriotism."

Sullivan has heard that before and is unfazed. There are more city halls out there to adorn with the motto, she said.

When asked whether she'd tried such liberal hotbeds as Berkeley or Santa Cruz, she paused.

"Well . . . " she said. "You're joking, right?"

steve.chawkins@latimes.com

Here is what we are up against!

READ IT AND WEEP.  Or giggle uncontrollably.  Just keep breathing evenly as you consume the following screed...
 
Malthus' Minions Ibd Fri Oct 26, 6:53 PM ET

Environment: Not content with its dubious fight over global warming, the United Nations now says humanity itself is causing irreversible environmental damage. Haven't we heard this kind of thing before?

Indeed, we have. In 1798, a country parson named Thomas Malthus published a book in which he calculated that human populations were growing faster than the world's ability to feed them. It wouldn't be long, he reasoned, before the world would be afflicted with " sickly seasons, epidemics, pestilence, and plague." In short: mass death.

He was, of course, spectacularly wrong.

True, population did increase, geometrically even. But it didn't lead to misery. Far from it. Today, we are wealthier, healthier, better-housed, better educated than ever -- thanks not to U.N. bureaucrats, but to our ability as free men and women to think clearly about problems, and solve them.

Yet, according to the U.N.'s new "Geo-4 Report," our environmental problems, a result of unchecked population growth and wealth, are so extensive that, as the London Times put it, "they must be treated as a top priority if they are to be solved."

Check your wallets and your freedom at the door. For this is the old line used by environmental extremists of all types: Things are so bad we can no longer put off what must be done. Of course, you'll have to give up some income and freedom -- and maybe even your right to bear children -- but, hey, the environment's at stake.

Excuse us, but this seems like another attempt to foist centralized, global control over the prosperous, dynamic and fast-growing economies of the world -- an attempt to shake us down and radically alter Western lifestyles, to get us out of our deluxe cars and designer clothes and onto bicycles and into bearskins.

It's a bad idea that just won't go away. In the 1960s, biology professor Paul Ehrlich revived Malthus with his best-selling "The Population Bomb." "In the 1970s," he warned, "the world will undergo famines -- hundreds of million of people are going to starve." His solution: Immediate population control, mandated by law.

Ehrlich was followed by the Club of Rome's "Limits To Growth," and by President Carter's equally alarmist "Global 2000" report. They, too, were utterly wrong. Yet, they influenced a whole generation of green activists who came to think of humanity as a disease -- a "cancer," in Ehrlich's word -- that had to be cut out.

Unfortunately for them, far from despoiling the world and leading lives that are "nasty, brutish and short," we're thriving. As the late economist Julian Simon noted, people are the ultimate resource. More people means more brains -- more problem-solvers for humanity's ills. Population isn't a curse; it's an opportunity.

This is why the Malthusian view of the world is so wrong. And why Simon and his followers are right to say not only is the world not getting worse, but by virtually any measure it's getting better.

In "The Improving State of the World," for instance, scientist Indur Goklany notes that worldwide life expectancies have more than doubled -- from 31 years to 67 -- in just the past century. In poor countries, the share suffering from chronic hunger plunged from 37% in 1970 to 17% in 2001, even as population soared 83%.

Even the definition of "poor" has changed, because average annual incomes in poor countries have more than tripled in real terms since 1950. Just since 1981, the share of the world's population living in poverty has been halved, from 40% to 20%.

Yes, we have social and environmental problems. But the alarmists would have us don straitjackets and then force-feed us solutions under the rubric of "sustainable growth" -- a kind of friendly fascism that leads to greater poverty and loss of liberty.

We prefer what's worked before: free markets, free minds and free people, working democratically under the rule of law.

--
Yes, let's keep doing what we've done, because we are rich and have no conception of what misery is actually created in the world due to our insanely unsustainable economy (don't ask about tin miners), as we lie to ourselves with statistics (since many people are poor and hungry, perhaps more than ever before!) and what we measure as progress and success (like a bigger house or car or meat on the table every night) is actually a siren call that draws us ever toward the rocks of disaster, and we remain especially and intentionally ignorant about what will happen in the not distant future, because of the profligate population, wanton waste, and myopic mindset of people like the author, who happen to also control the very causes of the catastrophe, and every fibre of their being and their huge (and GROWING) financial clout will deny any slow down or change in course, since their ox will be gored.  Al Gored.
 
The author doesn't understand the lesson of the casino.  He only plays No Limit Poker.  The table has been busted except one other player.  The cards are dealt.  Everything was going great.  He won every bet he made.  Then, his 4 aces puts his fortune "all-in"... only to get beat by Mother Nature's Straight Flush (flushing him right out of the biosphere!)
 
I'll leave it to others to dissect the insanity above, each sentence of which I could discuss and dispute but I'll take one swing at the fact that our liberties are being threatened (and not by environmentalists).
 
MY FAVORITE LINE:  "Of course, you'll have to give up ... your right to bear children -- hey, the environment's at stake.
(IF IT WERE ONLY SO!)

Cheers,

Frish

Monday, October 29, 2007

Woman escapes from German detention centre in a suitcase

HANOVER, Germany (AFP) - A 19-year-old woman appears to have escaped from a juvenile detention centre in northwest Germany by hiding in the suitcase of a fellow inmate who was released, police said on Monday.

Guards at the facility in Neustadt remarked that the suitcase of the 18-year-old who walked free on Friday was particularly heavy but failed to search it, the police said.

The fact that the other woman was missing was only noticed several hours later during the routine evening check of cells at the centre.

The police are still looking for the two young women.

This was a quick note from a volunteer, she's VEHEMENT!

(My friend Karin decided not to have children, and didn't.  Considering Karin knows nothing about www.vhemt.org, I thought you all would find her observations interesting...there are a LOT of (anonymous) VOLUNTEERS out there (some more "out there" than others!!!))
 
Karin writes:
 
Samuel & I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary in Crete.
From there we went to Athens, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, and Paris.  It was an unusually good trip.  I wouldn't go back to Spain but I always wanted to see it and we had a good time there.
Now I'm back at the office and feeling like I could use a good laugh.  Fortunately, Bush doesn't disappoint.  And if we don't laugh we will have to cry.
 
By the way, the Europeans now hate us.  This is the first time ever that they actually said it's not your president, it's you.  You voted for this idiot.
Everyone was very nice to me but they made it very clear that they hold Americans personally responsible for the situation.
 
Another interesting thing that was very clear from the minute we arrived in London:
In 25 years the world will be 50% Muslim.  This is a fact.  I don't think Americans understand this.  If you spend a day anywhere in Europe it is plain to see that they are overtaking the local populations.
Also in 25 years we won't have to worry about this because we will be under water!  Global warming will keep us so busy we won't have time to fight about religion.  We will be selling our real estate to buy clean drinking water.
 
There is good news in all this.  due to the increased diseases from bugs that fly here due to the climate change we may die sooner.  – But I'm not bitter.
 
Hope you have a great week.
("May we live long and die out"  Frish)

Sunday, October 28, 2007

A daily affirmation for those who are VEHEMENT!

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One 
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other, to total 
extinction.  Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." - 
Allen Konigsberg
You know who that is!  LOL
 
Frish

water molecules spinning

As a Thought Experiment many years ago, I considered the following problem...
 
Pour a glass of ice tea.  Put in a spoon and give it a swirl...how far do the molecules travel in the aggregate?
 
So...to determine this, I have many times tried to figure it out in my head.  I have always felt (for over 25 years) that the molecules of water given a spin in this way travel many LIGHT YEARS, and I've had a few fun conversations about it, but have never actually figured it out until now...
 
(The density of water is roughly 1 g/cm3 or about 500 billion billion billion hydrogen atoms per cubic meter)
 
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is the number of water molecules in 1 cup of water (500 cups in a cubic meter)
 
the distance each travels is 100 inches (33 rotations of 3 inches average (who cares, but this is like an 8 inch by 2 inch cylindrical glass full of water spinning 33 times!))
 
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 inches is how many light years?!?!?  (if any!)
 
light year in inches:
 
180,000 miles/sec x 5280 ft/mile x 12 inches/ft x 60 seconds/minute x 60 minutes/hour x 24 hours/day x 365 days per year =
359,661,772,800,000,000 inches per light year.
 
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 inches / 359,661,772,800,000,000 inches per light year =  BEAUCOUP LIGHT YEARS
 
278,039,000,979.97848716604001569332 light years. 
 
Call it an even 250,000,000,000 light years in each coffee cup baby!  Or maybe a lot less if you don't rotate it so much!!!
 
So each rotation causes the aggregate distance traveled by the molecules to be 1,000,000,000 light years!
 
The point of this story - molecules are really really tiny!
 
LOL  hope your brain is bending around this, it is much easier written down, and I really appreciate my 11th grade Chemistry instructor Mrs. Usher (whom I found out later was a lesbian (while I was on an acid trip at my high school graduation ceremony the year after I graduated, don't ask what I was doing there, but I didn't have anything to do with the bomb that blew up during the ceremony!!! But, that's another story!)) for teaching me all about how to keep track of the units one is manipulating formulas, it has served me well.

Not certain, but probable

http://pykus.com/images/Happy_Venn.png

 Frish
 

Computernick or Serial Killer, you be the judge...

(I got 7)

--
Cheers,

Frish

Attacking Masculinity

My friend Fred has a weekly newsletter, that started this week with the following quotation...

"The gender police have already ruined college sports for many men, forcing the senseless elimination of 171 wrestling teams to reduce the overall proportion of men to women on college athletic teams. Fresh from that attack on masculinity, the new targets are math and science departments.
 
Somehow this is an "Attack on Masculinity"!!!  Oh man, what will they think of next!  Wrestlers, guys who dress in almost nothing and rub up against each other and make the other man submit (and I'm sure, in the distant past, submission was more than just slapping the floor!)...how very masculine!
 
Frish

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

We're being subjected to an uncontrolled experiment

 
I'm a volunteer, NO kids blame me.
 
Here are two disturbing quotes from the article, that is about chemicals and kids, and their unknown exposure and effects...
 
"A study led by Shanna Swan of the University of Rochester in New York shows that prenatal exposure to phthalates in males may be associated with impaired testicular function and with a defect that shortens the space between the genitals and anus."
(Sounds a little too convenient, eh?)
Sorry, please ignore/disregard/take personally/or otherwise be offended - (choose one) it isn't every day you find a quote like that!
If we can't even laugh, the breeders have won!  (Oh that is really good, quote me Les!)
 
By the way, thanks to the alignment of the planets, GOOGLE Spelling doesn't know the word phthalates - the chemical in question, and the spell checker asked me if I really meant FATALITIES - oooh the humanity!
 
"[Rowan's] been on this planet for 18 months, and he's loaded with a chemical I've never heard of," Holland, 37, said. "He had two to three times the level of flame retardants in his body that's been known to cause thyroid dysfunction in lab rats."
 
(Gee dad, do you feel guilty for bringing life into this world of KNOWN RISKS, let alone these unknown ones...or are you just planning on suing some chemical/furniture factory.)
 
Does anyone else find it surprising/ASTONISHING that this type of research has NEVER been accomplished before?
 
Frish

Monday, October 22, 2007

SoCal Fires, Emergency Management, and planning...

Today in Southern California a series of wildfires either deliberately set, or caused by other "natural causes" (if, as one reporter proclaimed, a "downed power line" is a natural cause...)
 
(Very strong "Santa Ana" winds, a reverse weather phenomenom that causes adiabatically heated and dried air to be sent at hurricane speeds down canyons) are a huge contributor to the fires, and do cause power lines to fall as well!)
 
Republicans, such as Arnold and President Bush, are concerned about the people getting all that they need during the disaster.
 
"Emergency Management - Bring It On!"
 
(Sounds like socialism to me, like government roads, schools, MediCal, MediCare, Social Security, secure borders, etc.)
 
Once upon a time I wrote a disaster scenario to represent everything that could happen to a populace in one paragraph. 
 
It was part of a software demonstration from Cliffside Software, a company my brother and I started (and finished!).
 
I'll replicate it herewith, after you read the real life scenario as it appeared today!
 
Here are a series of sentences that sum it up...weird stuff happens in a disaster...
-----------------------------------------------
A 1,049-inmate jail in Orange County was evacuated because of heavy smoke. The prisoners were bused to other lockups.

In San Diego County, where at least four fires burned, more than 200,000 reverse 911 calls — calls from county officials to residents — alerted residents to evacuations, said County Supervisor Roberts.

About 10,000 of them ended up at Qualcomm Stadium, home to the NFL's Chargers, where thousands of people huddled in eerie silence during the day Monday, staring at muted TV news reports of the wildfires. A lone concession stand served coffee and doughnuts. Many gathered in the
parking lot with their pets, which were banned from the stadium.

"The flames were like 100 feet high and it moved up the hill in seconds. It was at the bottom, it was in the middle, and then it was at the top," said Steve Jarrett, who helped a friend evacuate his home in nearby Escondido.

Fire near the San Diego Wild Animal Park led authorities to move condors, a cheetah, snakes and other animals to the fire-resistant veterinary hospital on the grounds of the park. The large animals, such as elephants, rhinos and antelope, were left in irrigated enclosures.

Flames forced the evacuation of the San Diego community of Ramona, which has a population of about 36,000.

As flames, thick smoke and choking ash filled the air around San Diego County's Lake Hodges, Stan Smith ignored orders to evacuate and stayed behind to help rescue the horses of his neighbor Ken Morris.

 
"It's hard to leave all your belongings and take off, and the bad thing is you can't get back in once you leave," Smith said. "I heard the cops come by, and I just ducked," Morris said.
 
Besides, said Smith, "Lots of time the fire doesn't ever come. It's come really close before. I've seen it so bad you couldn't even hear yourself talk over the flames and ash blowing everywhere."
---------------------------------------
I'll wager Smith has seen his share of "ash blowing everywhere"!
 
Here's what I wrote (circa 1996).
 
PlanAHEAD remains the world's only generalized contingency exercise development tool and is used to script training sessions to allow decision makers to learn how to overcome all of this and more:
 
Mutual Aid Pacts were activated by the time the torrential rain started and the tornado had just about roped out when the school bus stalled over the railroad tracks right next to the gasoline tank farm and the children's cries drowned out the noise of the flash flood, which washed away the cemetary, sending caskets into the river, threatening the dam and not playing havoc with the computer systems like the electro-magnetic pulse from the nuclear explosion which put a crimp in the power to the city, and the computer data network was badly affected by the sun spots, while the civil disturbance went into its second week with the nursing home hostages being released just one at a time, and only if they help save the health care workers from their plane's wreckage, which is still smoldering at the recently crowded stadium (now a temporary morgue), and the fuel which hadn't already burned is pouring into the storm drains, barely affecting the President and First Lady who made a surprise visit, so almost nobody noticed the earthquake, except those EOC members still trapped in the grain silo with the virus wielding band of bio-hazard terrorists.
 
The media, with live TV feeds just outside the EOC, blames your organization.
 
Just had to share.
 
Good luck with the disaster, wherever you are!

If your parents, dislocated and distraught, are whining, here's another story...

This is from a friend of mine who is displaced due to the fires as well. 
 
Dear Michael,
 
We were evacuated yesterday from Lores Canyon and are presently staying in Newport Beach.  Our home is at risk and right in the line of the fire, based on what we can see on television.  We got out with a few pieces of clothing, our laptops, and about one precious item each--my mother's pearls, my son's baby blanket, my daughter's doll.  I have 3 children with me: Kevin, my 13 year old; Caitlin, my 11 year old, and Sarah, my colleague Tony Sowch's daughter, who is 10.  She was spending the night Saturday and by Sunday morning, the canyons had been closed, and us with NO electricity.  We only found out about the fires because the electricity came on for 10 minutes and someone reached us by landline, since our mobile phones do not work up there.  We came to Irvine to escape the fires, and then ended up at a friend's house that was evacuated last night, too.  Needless to say, it has been a terribly traumatic 24+ hours and I do not even know where we are going tomorrow.  We might need to take you up on your offer of a place to sleep, as we cannot stay forever in this hotel in Newport.
 
Love,
Lizzie
 
 
Wicked pix...

Hi, how's the fire?

Glad they are safe and away from the smoke (I hope).  I haven't left my condo and live in an apartment canyon, but the air seems awfully orange at the moment (from where I sit).
Yeah, the hose thingy is an classic TV photo op. 
Valient home-owner vs. Mother Nature...
She's only has 100 foot tall non-native, invasive and water-table-robbing-Eucalyptus that burn off near the ground (thanks to the unmanaged "engineered-to-burn" chapparel), and become airborne when their leaves catch the fire generated plus Santa Ana wind turning into flaming arrows in the neighborhood.  
Keep watching TV, you'll see some very likely!
Homeowner only has that little hose. 
oh well...My uncle's house went down to the ground in a fire in 1963 I think - the LA Brentwood Fire, right up a canyon.  His car was melted in the driveway and the chimney was still standing.  They managed to salvage the silver service, it was melted into a glob, so they stuck it on a board and called it art.
Across the street, the house was untouched, except for a 2 inch burn hole about 6 foot up on one of the garage doors!

I'll go on the roof and take a peek later.  We're in the middle of the city, if we get evacuated there is no where to go!
Good Luck, stay cool and don't be outside playing tennis or jogging...I know WAY too much about what is on that chapparel, I used to cruise through it for hours and hours as an archaeologist.
The smoke from a natural chapparel fire is plenty toxic.
The smoke from a current chapperel fire is doubly or trebly so, thanks to the smog that has been deposited upon the vegetation.  Think of years of heavy soot hydrocarbons now coating the already waxy leaves of chapparel.  They can tolerate that stuff great!  But now, it is burning, so it is like YEARS of car exhaust all in one week...in your lungs.
Wonder why I don't have kids?  I'd make a great dad...lol.
Enjoy your sister's kid(s) and don't have any, trust me, they, (your non-kids) will thank you!
www.vhemt.org  So, live long and die off! 
On that note, here's a story for your parents!
When I was with IBM Rochester, (in Minnesota - 1983!) my parents came down from Minneapolis to visit (about 80 miles).  They returned home just in front of a huge storm, and came back to our house 15 minutes later.
We ended up in a downstairs (basement split level, but up against the soil wall) bathroom as the tornadoes and hail and sleet and snow and torrential rain and shit went through town.
You can bet that made Martha's day!
On 10/22/07, Ryan <r@reeee.com> wrote:
It was a mandatory evacuation.  She is here too.  He was on the roof earlier LOL.  You called that!

-----Original Message-----
From: "Michael (Frish) Frishberg" <frish@gl.com>
To: "Ryan <r@reeee.com>
Sent: 10/22/07 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: Hi, how's the weather

Wholly shit batman.

What, did he dump your mother somewhere?

He's not on the roof with his hose?  Hmmm


>
> Hey dads here..he just got mandatory evacuated. Its bad!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Michael (Frish) Frishberg" <frishberg@gmail.com>
> To: "To: "Ryan < r@reeee.com>
  
 Subject: Hi, how's the weather
>
> I see Arnold on the TV sniffing smoke in San Diego...
>
> Are you downwind, upwind or winding down?!
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Frish

Sunday, October 21, 2007

High Crimes and Misdemeanors

Ten Reasons to Impeach George Bush and Dick Cheney
 
Ask Congress to impeach President Bush and Vice President Cheney for (at least) the following reasons:

1. Violating the United Nations Charter by launching an illegal "War of Aggression" against Iraq without cause, using fraud to sell the war to Congress and the public, misusing government funds to begin bombing without Congressional authorization, and subjecting our military personnel to unnecessary harm, debilitating injuries, and deaths.

2. Violating U.S. and international law by authorizing the torture of thousands of captives, resulting in dozens of deaths, and keeping prisoners hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross.

3. Violating the Constitution by arbitrarily detaining Americans, legal residents, and non-Americans, without due process, without charge, and without access to counsel.

4. Violating the Geneva Conventions by targeting civilians, journalists, hospitals, and ambulances, and using illegal weapons, including white phosphorous, depleted uranium, and a new type of napalm.

5. Violating U.S. law and the Constitution through widespread wiretapping of the phone calls and emails of Americans without a warrant.

6. Violating the Constitution by using "signing statements" to defy hundreds of laws passed by Congress.

7. Violating U.S. and state law by obstructing honest elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006.

8. Violating U.S. law by using paid propaganda and disinformation, selectively and misleadingly leaking classified information, and exposing the identity of a covert CIA operative working on sensitive WMD proliferation for political retribution.

9. Subverting the Constitution and abusing Presidential power by asserting a "Unitary Executive Theory" giving unlimited powers to the President, by obstructing efforts by Congress and the Courts to review and restrict Presidential actions, and by promoting and signing legislation negating the Bill of Rights and the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

10. Gross negligence in failing to assist New Orleans residents after Hurricane Katrina, in ignoring urgent warnings of an Al Qaeda attack prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and in increasing air pollution causing global warming.


I DON'T CLAIM TO HAVE WRITTEN THIS, I SIMPLY AGREE WITH IT...Frish
 
 

Guiliani's Terrorism Stance - Rudy, WE KNOW BETTER!

Believe It or Not

New York Sun Editorial
August 28, 2007

All kinds of claims are levied against candidates during the course of a campaign for president of America , but it'll be a frosty Friday before New Yorkers see one as ridiculous at that raised against Mayor Giuliani by Time magazine. A story by Amanda Ripley reports that "an analysis of 80 of Giuliani's major speeches from 1993 to 2001 shows that he mentioned the danger of terrorism only once." Well, backwards ran sentences until reeled the mind. Anyone who watched Mr. Giuliani through the period of his mayoralty remembers his vocal opposition of terrorism — so vocal, it was, that it was sometimes expressed at his own expense.
 
----------
The more I read about Amanda Ripley, the better I like her!

I miss Art Buchwald

"Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him." - Art Buchwald

Saturday, October 20, 2007

How to make a translate widget...

http://www.zimbio.com/Obamamania/articles/141/Make+your+own+translate+widget

Another good reason for a vasectomy!

AP: Sexual misconduct plagues US schools

By MARTHA IRVINE and ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writers

The young teacher hung his head, avoiding eye contact. Yes, he had touched a fifth-grader's breast during recess. "I guess it was just lust of the flesh," he told his boss.

That got Gary C. Lindsey fired from his first teaching job in Oelwein, Iowa. But it didn't end his career. He taught for decades in Illinois and Iowa, fending off at least a half-dozen more abuse accusations.

When he finally surrendered his teaching license in 2004 — 40 years after that first little girl came forward — it wasn't a principal or a state agency that ended his career. It was one persistent victim and her parents.

Lindsey's case is just a small example of a widespread problem in American schools: sexual misconduct by the very teachers who are supposed to be nurturing the nation's children.

Students in America's schools are groped. They're raped. They're pursued, seduced and think they're in love.

An Associated Press investigation found more than 2,500 cases over five years in which educators were punished for actions from bizarre to sadistic.

There are 3 million public school teachers nationwide, most devoted to their work. Yet the number of abusive educators — nearly three for every school day — speaks to a much larger problem in a system that is stacked against victims.

Most of the abuse never gets reported. Those cases reported often end with no action. Cases investigated sometimes can't be proven, and many abusers have several victims.

And no one — not the schools, not the courts, not the state or federal governments — has found a surefire way to keep molesting teachers out of classrooms.

Those are the findings of an AP investigation in which reporters sought disciplinary records in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The result is an unprecedented national look at the scope of sex offenses by educators — the very definition of breach of trust.

The seven-month investigation found 2,570 educators whose teaching credentials were revoked, denied, surrendered or sanctioned from 2001 through 2005 following allegations of sexual misconduct.

Young people were the victims in at least 1,801 of the cases, and more than 80 percent of those were students. At least half the educators who were punished by their states also were convicted of crimes related to their misconduct.

The findings draw obvious comparisons to sex abuse scandals in other institutions, among them the Roman Catholic Church. A review by America's Catholic bishops found that about 4,400 of 110,000 priests were accused of molesting minors from 1950 through 2002.

Clergy abuse is part of the national consciousness after a string of highly publicized cases. But until now, there's been little sense of the extent of educator abuse.

Beyond the horror of individual crimes, the larger shame is that the institutions that govern education have only sporadically addressed a problem that's been apparent for years.

"From my own experience — this could get me in trouble — I think every single school district in the nation has at least one perpetrator. At least one," says Mary Jo McGrath, a California lawyer who has spent 30 years investigating abuse and misconduct in schools. "It doesn't matter if it's urban or rural or suburban."

One report mandated by Congress estimated that as many as 4.5 million students, out of roughly 50 million in American schools, are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade. That figure includes verbal harassment that's sexual in nature.

Jennah Bramow, one of Lindsey's accusers in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, wonders why there isn't more outrage.

"You're supposed to be able to send your kids to school knowing that they're going to be safe," says Bramow, now 20. While other victims accepted settlement deals and signed confidentiality agreements, she sued her city's schools for failing to protect her and others from Lindsey — and won. Only then was Lindsey's teaching license finally revoked.

As an 8-year-old elementary-school student, Bramow told how Lindsey forced her hand on what she called his "pee-pee."

"How did you know it was his pee-pee?" an interviewer at St. Luke's Child Protection Center in Cedar Rapids asked Jennah in a videotape, taken in 1995.

"'Cause I felt something?" said Jennah, then a fidgety girl with long, dark hair.

"How did it feel?" the investigator asked.

"Bumpy," Jennah replied. She drew a picture that showed how Lindsey made her touch him on the zipper area of his pants.

Lindsey, now 68, refused multiple requests for an interview. "It never occurs to you people that some people don't want their past opened back up," he said when an AP reporter approached him at his home outside Cedar Rapids and asked questions.

That past, according to evidence presented in the Bramow's civil case, included accusations from students and parents along with reprimands from principals that were filed away, explained away and ultimately ignored until 1995, when accusations from Bramow and two other girls forced his early retirement. Even then, he kept his teaching license until the Bramows took the case public and filed a complaint with the state.

Like Lindsey, the perpetrators that the AP found are everyday educators — teachers, school psychologists, principals and superintendents among them. They're often popular and recognized for excellence and, in nearly nine out of 10 cases, they're male. While some abused students in school, others were cited for sexual misconduct after hours that didn't necessarily involve a kid from their classes, such as viewing or distributing child pornography.

They include:

• Joseph E. Hayes, a former principal in East St. Louis, Ill. DNA evidence in a civil case determined that he impregnated a 14-year-old student. Never charged criminally, his license was suspended in 2003. He has ignored an order to surrender it permanently.

• Donald M. Landrum, a high school teacher in Polk County, N.C. His bosses warned him not to meet with female students behind closed doors. They put a glass window in his office door, but Landrum papered over it. Police later found pornography and condoms in his office and alleged that he was about to have sex with a female student. His license was revoked in 2005.

• Rebecca A. Boicelli, a former teacher in Redwood City, Calif. She conceived a child with a 16-year-old former student then went on maternity leave in 2004 while police investigated. She was hired to teach in a nearby school district; board members said police hadn't told them about the investigation.

The overwhelming majority of cases the AP examined involved teachers in public schools. Private school teachers rarely turn up because many are not required to have a teaching license and, even when they have one, disciplinary actions are typically handled within the school.

Two of the nation's major teachers unions, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, each denounced sex abuse while emphasizing that educators' rights also must be taken into account.

"Students must be protected from sexual predators and abuse, and teachers must be protected from false accusations," said NEA President Reg Weaver, who refused to be interviewed and instead released a two-paragraph statement.

Kathy Buzad of the AFT said that "if there's one incident of sexual misconduct between a teacher and a student that's one too many."

The United States has grown more sympathetic to victims of sex abuse over recent decades, particularly when it comes to young people. Laws that protect children from abusers bear the names of young victims. Police have made pursuing Internet predators a priority. People convicted of abuse typically face tough sentences and registry as sex offenders.

Even so, sexually abusive teachers continue to take advantage, and there are several reasons why.

For one, many Americans deny the problem, and even treat the abuse with misplaced fascination. Popular media reports trumpet relationships between attractive female teachers and male students.

"It's dealt with in a salacious manner with late-night comedians saying 'What 14-year-old boy wouldn't want to have sex with his teacher?' It trivializes the whole issue," says Robert Shoop, a professor of educational administration at Kansas State University who has written a book aimed at helping school districts identify and deal with sexual misconduct.

"In other cases, it's reported as if this is some deviant who crawled into the school district — 'and now that they're gone, everything's OK.' But it's much more prevalent than people would think."

The AP investigation found efforts to stop individual offenders but, overall, a deeply entrenched resistance toward recognizing and fighting abuse. It starts in school hallways, where fellow teachers look away or feel powerless to help. School administrators make behind-the-scenes deals to avoid lawsuits and other trouble. And in state capitals and Congress, lawmakers shy from tough state punishments or any cohesive national policy for fear of disparaging a vital profession.

That only enables rogue teachers, and puts kids who aren't likely to be believed in a tough spot.

In case after case the AP examined, accusations of inappropriate behavior were dismissed. One girl in Mansfield, Ohio , complained about a sexual assault by teacher Donald Coots and got expelled. It was only when a second girl, years later, brought a similar complaint against the same teacher that he was punished.

And that second girl also was ostracized by the school community and ultimately left town.

Unless there's a videotape of a teacher involved with a child, everyone wants to believe the authority figure, says Wayne Promisel, a retired Virginia detective who has investigated many sex abuse cases.

He and others who track the problem reiterated one point repeatedly during the AP investigation: Very few abusers get caught.

They point to several academic studies estimating that only about one in 10 victimized children report sexual abuse of any kind to someone who can do something about it.

Teachers, administrators and even parents frequently don't, or won't, recognize the signs that a crime is taking place.

"They can't see what's in front of their face. Not unlike a kid in an alcoholic family, who'll say 'My family is great,'" says McGrath, the California lawyer and investigator who now trains entire school systems how to recognize what she calls the unmistakable "red flags" of misconduct.

In Hamburg, Pa., in 2002, those "red flags" should have been clear. A student skipped classes every day to spend time with one teacher. He gave her gifts and rides in his car. She sat on his lap. The bond ran so deep that the student got chastised repeatedly — even suspended once for being late and absent so often. But there were no questions for the teacher.

Heather Kline was 12, a girl with a broad smile and blond hair pulled back tight. Teacher Troy Mansfield had cultivated her since she was in his third-grade class.

"Kids, like, idolized me because they thought I was, like, cool because he paid more attention to me," says Kline, now 18, sitting at her mother's kitchen table, sorting through a file of old poems and cards from Mansfield. "I was just like really comfortable. I could tell him anything."

He never pushed her, just raised the stakes, bit by bit — a comment about how good she looked, a gift, a hug.

She was sure she was in love.

By winter of seventh grade, he was sneaking her off in his car for an hour of sex, dropping in on her weekly baby-sitting duties, e-mailing about what clothes she should wear, about his sexual fantasies, about marriage and children.

Mansfield finally got caught by the girl's mother, and his own words convicted him. At his criminal trial in 2004, Heather read his e-mails and instant messages aloud, from declarations of true love to explicit references to past sex. He's serving up to 31 years in state prison.

The growing use of e-mails and text messages is leaving a trail that investigators and prosecutors can use to prove an intimate relationship when other evidence is hard to find.

Even then, many in the community find it difficult to accept that a predator is in their midst. When these cases break, defendants often portray the students as seducers or false accusers. However, every investigator questioned said that is largely a misconception.

"I've been involved in several hundred investigations," says Martin Bates, an assistant superintendent in a Salt Lake City school district. "I think I've seen that just a couple of times ... where a teacher is being pursued by a student."

Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.

"They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated," says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.

It's a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames — "passing the trash" or the "mobile molester."

Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there's no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.

School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don't want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don't want to face a challenge from a strong union.

In the Iowa case, Lindsey agreed to leave without fighting when his bosses kept the reason for his departure confidential. The decades' worth of allegations against him would have stayed secret, if not for Bramow.

Across the country, such deals and lack of information-sharing allow abusive teachers to jump state lines, even when one school does put a stop to the abuse.

While some schools and states have been aggressive about investigating problem teachers and publicizing it when they're found, others were hesitant to share details of cases with the AP — Alabama and Mississippi among the more resistant. Maine, the only state that gave the AP no disciplinary information, has a law that keeps offending teachers' cases secret.

Meanwhile, the reasons given for punishing hundreds of educators, including many in California, were so vague there was no way to tell why they'd been punished, until further investigation by AP reporters revealed it was sexual misconduct.

And in Hawaii, no educators were disciplined by the state in the five years the AP examined, even though some teachers there were serving sentences for various sex crimes during that time. They technically remained teachers, even behind bars.

Elsewhere, there have been fitful steps toward catching errant teachers that may be having some effect. The AP found the number of state actions against sexually abusive teachers rose steadily, to a high of 649 in 2005.

More states now require background checks on teachers, fingerprinting and mandatory reporting of abuse, though there are still loopholes and a lack of coordination among districts and states.

U.S. Supreme Court rulings in the last 20 years on civil rights and sex discrimination have opened schools up to potentially huge financial punishments for abuses, which has driven some schools to act.

And the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education and Certification keeps a list of educators who've been punished for any reason, but only shares the names among state agencies.

The uncoordinated system that's developed means some teachers still fall through the cracks. Aaron M. Brevik is a case in point.

Brevik was a teacher at an elementary school in Warren, Mich., until he was accused of using a camera hidden in a gym bag to secretly film boys in locker rooms and showers. He also faced charges that he recorded himself molesting a boy while the child slept.

Found guilty of criminal sexual conduct, Brevik is now serving a five- to 20-year prison sentence and lost his Michigan license in 2005.

What Michigan officials apparently didn't know when they hired him was that Brevik's teaching license in Minnesota had been permanently suspended in 2001 after he allegedly invited two male minors to stay with him in a hotel room. He was principal of an elementary school in southeastern Minnesota at the time.

"I tell you what, they never go away. They just blend a little better," says Steve Janosko, a prosecutor in Ocean County, N.J., who handled the case of a former high school teacher and football coach, Nicholas J. Arminio.

Arminio surrendered his New Jersey teaching license in 1994 after two female students separately accused him of inappropriate touching. The state of Maryland didn't know that when he applied for teaching credentials and took a job at a high school in Baltimore County. He eventually resigned and lost that license, too.

Even so, until this month, he was coaching football at another Baltimore County high school in a job that does not require a teaching license. After the AP started asking questions, he was fired.

Victims also face consequences when teachers are punished.

In Pennsylvania, after news of teacher Troy Mansfield's arrest hit, girls called Kline, his 12-year-old victim, a "slut" to her face. A teacher called her a "vixen." Friends stopped talking to her. Kids no longer sat with her at lunch.

Her abuser, meanwhile, had been a popular teacher and football coach.

So, between rumors that she was pregnant or doing drugs and her own panic attacks and depression, Kline bounced between schools. At 16, she ran away to Nashville.

"I didn't have my childhood," says Kline, who's back home now, working at a grocery cash register and hoping to get her GED so she can go to nursing school. "He had me so matured at so young.

"I remember going from little baby dolls to just being an adult."

The courts dealt her a final insult. A federal judge dismissed her civil suit against the school, saying administrators had no obligation to protect her from a predatory teacher since officials were unaware of the abuse, despite what the court called widespread "unsubstantiated rumors" in the school. The family is appealing.

In Iowa, the state Supreme Court made the opposite ruling in the Bramow case, deciding she and her parents could sue the Cedar Rapids schools for failing to stop Lindsey.

Bramow, now a young mother who waits tables for a living, won a $20,000 judgment. But Lindsey was never criminally charged due to what the former county prosecutor deemed insufficient evidence.

Arthur Sensor, the former superintendent in Oelwein, Iowa, who vividly recalls pressuring Lindsey to quit on Feb. 18, 1964, regrets that he didn't do more to stop him back then.

Now, he says, he'd call the police.

"He promised me he wouldn't do it again — that he had learned. And he was a young man, a beginning teacher, had a young wife, a young child," Sensor, now 86 years old, said during testimony at the Bramows' civil trial.

"I wanted to believe him, and I did."